The Ethics of a FrankenWatch...

SC1 · Jan 4, 2023

Hypothetical Q-

if one were to build/create a FrankenWatch strictly for their own satisfaction - say to scratch the itch of the Impossible* - and never release it into the wild -- True/False, there would be zero ethical issues with having done so?

*Impossible meaning... a manufacturer is never going to release what you desire yet all the parts would be authentic to that manufacturer.

Tony C. · Jan 4, 2023

Unless you develop one that is capable of breeding, I wouldn't even see any issues with releasing it into the wild! 😁

JwRosenthal · Jan 4, 2023

As long as you aren’t branding the watch with a makers name- no ethical issue IMo. Even if you were to use branded parts and assemble them to your liking, your parts, your money.
The ethical only comes into play if you sell it one day as a factory offering or “prototype”.
In the unlikely event that your descendants actually care about your watches after you die, they should know or have a written description that this watch is a fabrication and they can’t retire on the proceeds of sale.

SC1 · Jan 4, 2023

JwRosenthal
As long as you aren’t branding the watch with a makers name- no ethical issue IMo. Even if you were to use branded parts and assemble them to your liking, your parts, your money.
The ethical only comes into play if you sell it one day as a factory offering or “prototype”.
In the unlikely event that your descendants actually care about your watches after you die, they should know or have a written description that this watch is a fabrication and they can’t retire on the proceeds of sale.

Agreed.

Another question...

regarding branding, what happens to the argument if, say, someone took a manufacturer's movement and dropped it into the same manufacturer's case albeit a smaller one?
So in this example: branding is there for all to see even though component usage has been "altered" or "customized" to the owner's specific preferences.
Again for personal use only.

Aroxx · Jan 4, 2023

I wonder if car guys sit around and talk about the ethics of rims and body kits… 😗

SC1 · Jan 4, 2023

Aroxx
I wonder if car guys sit around and talk about the ethics of rims and body kits… 😗

Agreed 1000%...

as a musician and cyclist, neither group sweats alterations and customizations whatsoever.

In the watch world would I be correct in assuming it's that there is so much coin to be made in Fakes, Clones, Altering History for Profit -- and the simple fact that many Watch People are scared shitless to open their caseback and take a peak because it seems like uncharted & foreign territory?

Scarecrow Boat · Jan 4, 2023

SC1
if one were to build/create a FrankenWatch strictly for their own satisfaction - say to scratch the itch of the Impossible*

Let me introduce my “scratch the itch of the impossible” and “purely for my own satisfaction” as I cannot afford paying current prices and this is hands down my favorite piece in my collection. It’s not going anywhere but I have retained all the original pieces. Also modified the movement to have the metal brake. Started life as a brand new 1861 I purchased directly from Omega and put a new/sealed TinTin dial in via my watch maker.

SC1
Impossible meaning... a manufacturer is never going to release what you desire yet all the parts would be authentic to that manufacturer.

But maybe this doesn’t quite fit with what you’re thinking(?) as the manufacturer already made this model and I very much desire it… just can’t afford it 😉

Dan S · Jan 4, 2023

I don't see any ethical problems with what you are suggesting. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm guessing that if this is done entirely for your own use, there would also not be any legal issues.

Even selling modded watches with full disclosure seems to be accepted in practice, although it's possible that it may not be totally legal. There is a lot of modding in the world of Seiko collecting, and I've never heard of any repercussions.

mancio · Jan 4, 2023

I don't see any issues in building a Franken watch for personal use, and to be honest, not even if it happens to go into the wild.
AS LONG AS everything that was done in terms of modifications is disclosed, I don't have problems with that.

SC1 · Jan 4, 2023

Scarecrow Boat
Let me introduce my “scratch the itch of the impossible” and “purely for my own satisfaction” as I cannot afford paying current prices and this is hands down my favorite piece in my collection. It’s not going anywhere but I have retained all the original pieces. Also modified the movement to have the metal brake. Started life as a brand new 1861 I purchased directly from Omega and put a new/sealed TinTin dial in via my watch maker.

But maybe this doesn’t quite fit with what you’re thinking(?) as the manufacturer already made this model and I very much desire it… just can’t afford it 😉

Wow!!
Okay, this gives me pause and hope that I may be able to do what I am thinking! 👍

mancio · Jan 4, 2023

Dan S
I don't see any ethical problems with what you are suggesting. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm guessing that if this is done entirely for your own use, there would also not be any legal issues.

Even selling modded watches with full disclosure seems to be accepted in practice, although it's possible that it may not be totally legal. There is a lot of modding in the world of Seiko collecting, and I've never heard of any repercussions.

I believe the problem with Seiko, would it be selling the in an online shop with the logo clearly visible.
I don't think It's a case that in a lot of modded dial that are available with Seiko logo, the logo is covered in the public photos.

mancio · Jan 4, 2023

Scarecrow Boat
Let me introduce my “scratch the itch of the impossible” and “purely for my own satisfaction” as I cannot afford paying current prices and this is hands down my favorite piece in my collection. It’s not going anywhere but I have retained all the original pieces. Also modified the movement to have the metal brake. Started life as a brand new 1861 I purchased directly from Omega and put a new/sealed TinTin dial in via my watch maker.

But maybe this doesn’t quite fit with what you’re thinking(?) as the manufacturer already made this model and I very much desire it… just can’t afford it 😉

Gorgeous!!!!!

JwRosenthal · Jan 4, 2023

To add to Aaron’s point (and use a former watch of his for the illustration)- Rolex never made an acrylic crystal for the 14060.

This modification (although heresy to many Rolex purists) has transformed a watch that I liked by thought was rather boring, into a drop dead stunner. I have the original sapphire crystal so it can be put back easily if the next owner wanted to- but they would just be stupid to do that.

mancio · Jan 4, 2023

JwRosenthal
To add to Aaron’s point (and use a former watch of his for the illustration)- Rolex never made an acrylic crystal for the 14060.

This modification (although heresy to many Rolex purists) has transformed a watch that I liked by thought was rather boring, into a drop dead stunner. I have the original sapphire crystal so it can be put back easily if the next owner wanted to- but they would just be stupid to do that.

Ollalla'!!!!Niiiiiice mod. Love the vintage vibes.

dsio · Jan 4, 2023

Its fine imo, one of my long term desires is to find a nice 2852 Constellation case with a water damaged movement and dial, get a top notch redial done in Vietnam on it in black, and then swap out the Cal 501 movement with a modern Calibre 8400 or similar. Would be a cool res to-mod way to resurrect a watch that otherwise would be a write-off.

It would require a bit of finesse from the watchmaker to ensure the necessary spacers are fabricated and making the hand height work but I know a guy that could definitely do it perfectly.

Scarecrow Boat · Jan 4, 2023

mancio
Ollalla'!!!!Niiiiiice mod. Love the vintage vibes.

Indeed and makes me wish I had done it when I owned it. Reached out to TruDome hoping they made something and they responded they hadn’t but many owners of the 14060 had already asked the same thing.

Evitzee · Jan 4, 2023

I never could understand the dislike many here on OF have for people modding their watches, particularly Speedmasters, for their own use. One reason I keep hearing is 'it may just be for your personal use now but if you sell it the next owner(s) may try to pass it off as an original watch'. I'm not going to deny myself some pleasure today because what some dude in the future may do. It's your property and you can do what you want with it. Unfortunately many manufacturers, like Omega, have now decided that they don't like owners modding their watches so they are now restricting dials, backs and other items except on an exchange basis.

SC1 · Jan 4, 2023

Evitzee
Unfortunately many manufacturers, like Omega, have now decided that they don't like owners modding their watches so they are now restricting dials, backs and other items except on an exchange basis.

This is the part that worries me. If faced with it, it is going to make my idea quite spendy as I'd have to face buying an entirely different watch to use as a donor.

JwRosenthal · Jan 4, 2023

Evitzee
I never could understand the dislike many here on OF have for people modding their watches, particularly Speedmasters, for their own use. One reason I keep hearing is 'it may just be for your personal use now but if you sell it the next owner(s) may try to pass it off as an original watch'. I'm not going to deny myself some pleasure today because what some dude in the future may do. It's your property and you can do what you want with it. Unfortunately many manufacturers, like Omega, have now decided that they don't like owners modding their watches so they are now restricting dials, backs and other items except on an exchange basis.

And you forgot to mention the damage to the INVESTMENT. These aren’t mere watches by which to tell time and bring us joy by bedazzling them with whatever makes us feel sassy. These are part of a diversified portfolio and should never leave the box!
Shame on me for wanting to have fun with my watch, what was I thinking! 👎

SC1 · Jan 4, 2023

JwRosenthal
And you forgot to mention the damage to the INVESTMENT. These aren’t mere watches by which to tell time and bring us joy by bedazzling them with whatever makes us feel sassy. These are part of a diversified portfolio and should never leave the box!
Shame on me for wanting to have fun with my watch, what was I thinking! 👎

You SOB. So selfish to even think you are entitled to own, enjoy, hell - alter, something that's yours.
What's next: you painted your house, remodeled your bathrooms... don't even tell me you swapped out those Avocado Green & Harvest Gold appliances mister.

Me, no I'm a purist that respects history... I've still got my factory oil + oil filter in my 1971 Monte Carlo with 150k miles on it. And someday I'll pull in the big bucks for having done so too.

The Ethics of a FrankenWatch...

SC1

Tony C.

JwRosenthal

SC1

Aroxx

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Scarecrow Boat

Dan S

mancio

SC1

mancio

mancio

JwRosenthal

mancio

dsio

Scarecrow Boat

Evitzee

SC1

JwRosenthal

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