The end of wearing an expensive watch

Locked
Posts
23,385
Likes
52,009
In every mass shooting in the last two years, armed citizens could have stopped it quickly and actually prevented a "shooting" from turning into a mass shooting.

Unfortunately, I think this is mainly wishful thinking. There have been armed citizens present in many mass shooting situations, and they generally chose to take cover ... quite sensibly. In our local mass shooting, a police officer was on the scene very quickly, and sadly he was killed.
 
Posts
647
Likes
1,502
The United States has more armed citizens than any other first world nation - and one of the highest rates of gun violence. Keeping in mind that mass shootings in the U.S. are a daily occurrence, please give us examples of publicized incidents of which you are aware in which a good samaritan armed citizen thwarted a would be mass shooting.

Just off the top of my head, the church shooting where both a member of the congregation and a plain clothes security guard took out the shooter before he could turn it into a whole sale slaughter. You might also look at the videos on YouTube, filled with examples of business owners and diners at restaurants and home owners use their own guns to protect themselves and stop crimes. Yes the US has more armed citizens that any other first world nation and it is the largest population of all first world nations. It also has a unique history that relates to the personal ownership of handguns as tools of survival in frontier settings. It would be nice if our cities were civilized, but violent criminals, aided by uber liberal politicians have made them into unsafe sewers. To quote Jeff Cooper (you can research who he is):
"If violent crime is to be curbed, it is only the intended victim who can do it. The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore, what he must be taught to fear is his victim."
 
Posts
13,121
Likes
17,996
Sure, but in this specific case the person threw a chair at a guy with a gun and broke a women's face in the process....
I don’t know tort law in the Netherlands, but I can promise you that if this was the good ole US of A, that restaurant patron with the broken teeth will collect far more than the value of the watch in question from both the “entrepreneur” (for throwing the chair which broke her teeth) and the restaurant (for allowing it to happen).

And as they say in the Allstate commercials, “if you don’t have the right insurance, you might be paying for this yourself.”

Give them the watch next time.
gatorcpa
 
Posts
9,529
Likes
52,505
Just off the top of my head, the church shooting where both a member of the congregation and a plain clothes security guard took out the shooter before he could turn it into a whole sale slaughter. You might also look at the videos on YouTube, filled with examples of business owners and diners at restaurants and home owners use their own guns to protect themselves and stop crimes. Yes the US has more armed citizens that any other first world nation and it is the largest population of all first world nations. It also has a unique history that relates to the personal ownership of handguns as tools of survival in frontier settings. It would be nice if our cities were civilized, but violent criminals, aided by uber liberal politicians have made them into unsafe sewers. To quote Jeff Cooper (you can research who he is):
"If violent crime is to be curbed, it is only the intended victim who can do it. The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore, what he must be taught to fear is his victim."
And I would venture to guess that the number of such incidents that are actually thwarted by armed citizens is a very, very small percentage of the total that doesn’t support your position.
Edited:
 
Posts
23,385
Likes
52,009
It would be nice if our cities were civilized, but violent criminals, aided by uber liberal politicians have made them into unsafe sewers.
Oh boy. 🤦
 
Posts
647
Likes
1,502
This thread began as a question about crime and its impact on our hobby and society in general. That is politics.
 
Posts
13,121
Likes
17,996
Guys, let’s watch the political stuff please.

First warning.
gatorcpa
 
Posts
921
Likes
10,682
I always find this sort of comment disappointing, in particular from people I respect, like you.

But this is the narrative that you hear all the time, that the choices are either to arm yourself to the hilt, or "roll over" or "cower" or some other sort of term meant to demean the people who are not in favour of living in an armed state, 24/7.

These are not the only options...

I think the logic that more guns = safer society is, aside from being flawed, already statistically inaccurate. The US is already a leader in both gun ownership and gun-related violence, I don't see how more guns will suddenly reverse the trend.


,
 
Posts
13,485
Likes
53,046
With a gun pointed at your head?
Spent an hour plus in active shooter lock down in a hot boat house yesterday morning. Yea I’m a bit agitated right now…
 
Posts
9,529
Likes
52,505
Spent an hour plus in active shooter lock down in a hot boat house yesterday morning. Yea I’m a bit agitated right now…
Understandable.
 
Posts
9,529
Likes
52,505
Here’s an idea. Outlaw concealed carry and equip all citizens with a 007 Bond watch with all the movie features - explosive device, laser, rappelling cord, etc. Robber steals watch and watch explodes. Problem solved. 😀
 
Posts
1,480
Likes
8,091
Here’s an idea. Outlaw concealed carry and equip all citizens a 007 Bond watch with all the movie features - explosive device, laser, rappelling cord, etc. Now we’re talking! 😀

OR, make live bullet stupid expensive. Like $1000 each.
It's gonna take basic financial analysis before someone can fire at me.
That's all I'm asking.
Edited:
 
Posts
29,217
Likes
75,504
However, there are an awful lot of bad stories as well that result from good guys carrying guns (including a tragic local case, where a good guy killed a bad guy who ambushed a cop, and then was mistakenly killed by other cops).

That one always comes to mind when this topic comes up. A case of someone doing the right thing, and paying for it with his life.
 
Posts
2,777
Likes
14,815
Just asking, where does the criminal sell the Rolex and get $10K?

Well besides joining OF and posting 200 times.
 
Posts
4,504
Likes
45,111
OR, make live bullet stupid expensive. Like $1000 each.
It's gonna take basic financial analysis before someone can fire at me.
That's all I'm asking.

The trouble with that is that criminals don't buy their guns or ammunition at a retail store not to mention the other unintended consequence of gun and ammunition theft becoming more of a threat than the status quo cheap ammunition.

Laws and taxes only limit the law abiding.
 
Posts
23,385
Likes
52,009
That one always comes to mind when this topic comes up. A case of someone doing the right thing, and paying for it with his life.

We just passed the one-year anniversary, and there were some memorials. The word "tragic" is over-used, but truly and literally applies to that event.
 
Posts
315
Likes
3,081
Here's my problem with concealed.
Let's say I cut you off on the interstate. We both rolled down our windows and exchanged dick jokes. Most likely, you'll show me your fire arm.

You'll get to decide if I live or die for cutting you off. People who carry guns tend to escalade shit quickly. I'm generalized from prior experiences. Concealed baseball bat needs to be a thing. I support that.

here is my take. My point of carrying isn’t to show you my gun. Or try to escalate anything. My point to carry is I don’t know you. If I have my 3 year old and 6 year old with me and you cut me off and proceed to try to hit my car with yours or continue to cut me off, I’m now considering you are trying to hurt my kids.
I live a cushy life in the suburbs of Chicago but after this 4th of July highland park shooter, I don’t trust anyone in or near Chicago. That’s why I carry in my car.
 
Posts
6,325
Likes
9,915
Just asking, where does the criminal sell the Rolex and get $10K?

Well besides joining OF and posting 200 times.
Couple of these guys were caught and I think they sold the watches in Antwerps…