Stopwatch indentification - Lemania 100 sec stopwatch

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Hello everyone ,

A google search about a specific stopwatch I recently found in my grandfathers toolbox led me here. I have scoured what I could of the internet and I cannot find an image of a watch identical to this one, although there are many of similar ones. The Nero Lemania split seconds stopwatch for example is very similar in design but the main dial goes to 60 seconds and not 100. This is my first time posting and I know very little, if anything, about vintage stopwatches. I'm excited to learn a bit more!

My grandpa passed away nearly two years ago and when helping my father emptying his home, I acquired his toolbox. Recently when digging through it I came upon this Lemania stopwatch, with three dials. A 100 second main dial, a 60 second dial below and a what I believe to be a lap-counter above. I would really like to find out more about this.



Here is what I gathered:

1. It wasn't moving when found, but after clicking on both buttons a few times to see if it still worked, it started moving again. I don't know what I did to spring it back into action. The main dial has two needles the black one works seconds and the second red one can be ''sent'' to where the black on is to set a lap I think. When the black needle does a full circle and crosses the red needle it clicks the top lap-counter dial up by one if that makes any sense. The lower dial has also just started running and is just counting seconds up to a full minute. I can't seem to stop it from spinning.

2. The back is very very very hard to open and it is impossible to do so by hand. I might have committed sacrilege by prying it open with a thin screwdriver. I managed to do it without damaging the chassis to take some pictures and closed it immediately. It is now closed, and I don't want to force it open anymore just in case I break it.

3. There are two layers of chassis covering the internals. Both were impossible to open by hand. The first layer has a large sticker with the numbers 249. They don't represent anything specific about my grandfather but am I right in assuming this is not from the manufacturer? In the internals there is a small engraving of the numbers 386033 almost like a serial number.



4. It seems to be in working order. The internals are very nice, I have never seen this type of thing up-close and its absolutely fascinating. The small lip you are supposed to use to open the back is already a little dented from someone who tried to pry it open before me but it isn't in terrible shape. The plastic (I don't think it is glass but it could be) of the stopwatch is a little blurry above the center. This is the part of the plastic that sticks out the most and has probably dragged on many surfaces with time.

Here is what I would like to know:

1. A general idea about its make, year, use case. Was it used for sports, horse-races who knows. And how do I operate it? Is is normal that the bottom dial just keeps going?

3. If I'm standing over an uncommon and coveted piece I might try to sell it, I don't think it had any sentimental value to my grandfather since it was left in a toolbox, and I think it might better serve in a collectors stash who could appreciate it far more. Ballpark what do you think the value is? Is it worth it to get it serviced and cleaned up pre-sale?

4. If it's not worth that much, I might just get it serviced, cleaned up and easy to open if its not too expensive to do so that I have a nice memento to give my father. It seems like its working fine. If anyone has some recommendations, I live in Montréal QC, Canada.

Thank you!
 
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I know nothing, but it is cool. Waiting for others to chime in.
🍿
 
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What was your Grandfathers age and career (in case of any clues)?

My grandfather was born in 1927, he used to own and operate a small oil sales and delivery service around the north shore of Montreal and the wider Quebec area.
 
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That's more commonly known as a decimal-minute stopwatch and is used for industrial timing analysis. With one you can calculate the number of units per time period.
 
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That's more commonly known as a decimal-minute stopwatch and is used for industrial timing analysis. With one you can calculate the number of units per time period.

That chimes with a slightly similar split second watch from the UK Air Ministry RAF Air publication 1275A - a time piece for 'performance monitoring'.
It also matches the OP uncles industrial / unit cost background. I wonder what year the OP watch is from - seventies but with a round crown?
.
 
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It has a big-ass inventory/ID number in the case, so we know there were a bunch of them. No telling whether the movement and case it has now were always together.
 
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It has a big-ass inventory/ID number in the case, so we know there were a bunch of them. No telling whether the movement and case it has now were always together.

It is a good point - 249 would be a lot of time and motion watches for one firm so I wonder if it has other significance or covered multiple asset types. Would be nice to have a clear picture of any serial numbers.
.
 
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It is a good point - 249 would be a lot of time and motion watches for one firm so I wonder if it has other significance or covered multiple asset types. Would be nice to have a clear picture of any serial numbers.
.
Could be from a chemicals research lab. Start your sequence at 101 to keep all serials 3 digit and easy to have that many. Perhaps a room number or bench number also.

BTW, it's not 100 seconds, it measures 1/100ths of a minute. That makes the arithmetic of multiple measurements easier for most people.
 
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Hi @Bleurk

I/we don't have any solid data to work with when it comes to Lemania (Much of the records are lost)
Please take some of my answers as best efforts only. The others with a pinch of salt, I am just a fan and have not got any reference piece to compare to.
So Congrats on a great family piece, this is how I ended up with 6 of the same watch. As I got handed my grandads watch from Dad 😀

My humble ideas on your great question
1.
A general idea about its make, year, use case. Was it used for sports, horse-races who knows. And how do I operate it? Is is normal that the bottom dial just keeps going?

@Bleurk Please provide a diameter measurement. it will help with guessing the model number.
Make is Lemania and has a very rich history making high quality precision time pieces for military units in RCAF, RAF etc to BBC
but also providing 3rd party companies like Omega (very long list) with movements to use in their timepieces. To learn more about the Brand Google is your friend. A starter for 10
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemania

So the Year is approximate 1952-53 based on the chart. give or take +/- a few years. Id say a 50s piece.
@Omegafanman Can you give a year for RAF Milspec doc 1275A Rev 1?

Use case
as mentioned we need to know more about who or what your Granddad did from the 50s onward? Found in toolbox. So same question for toolbox. Only big guesses here Industry/Military/Sport
Minimise your operation/use of the item, it's like starting 1950's car without any checks for water, oil, gas... by a mechanic and still it worked. Just stop playing with it before something costly goes ping.
FYI best guess use,
1 Ball / winder to start
2 Flat to stop first split hand
3 Ball / winder to stop second split hand
4 Ball and Flat together (see @Omegafanman RAF doc for better vocabulary than mine)
And yes/no the bottom dial should not be always running. Lets hope you're at point 1 or 2 in best guess steps.

Typo?
2/3/4. If I'm standing over an uncommon and coveted piece I might try to sell it, I don't think it had any sentimental value to my grandfather since it was left in a toolbox, and I think it might better serve in a collectors stash who could appreciate it far more. Ballpark what do you think the value is? Is it worth it to get it serviced and cleaned up pre-sale?
If it's not worth that much, I might just get it serviced, cleaned up and easy to open if its not too expensive to do so that I have a nice memento to give my father. It seems like its working fine. If anyone has some recommendations, I live in Montréal QC, Canada.


Popularity: Good question, its a common workhorse of good quality. The age old supply and demand balance, what does the buyer need vs seller want.
Note: I'm not a dealer but you have loads of sites at hand on the internet eg
Chrono24: https://www.chrono24.co.uk/lemania/pocket-watch-vintage-steel-stop-watch--id19844315.htm
ebay: https://www.google.com/search?q=lemania stopwatch ebay&rlz=1C5CHFA_enGB826GB826&sxsrf=ALeKk00MOnsbBBQtApkj-CdWvbNh4EAS-Q:1625489977871&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjz0t2F_svxAhX0QEEAHQfACKkQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=1440&bih=744

To give you an idea of price range.
Some are in good condition and have been serviced,
Some sites have higher fees for listings
Add dealers margins.
Delivery, Import and Taxes

My advice if keeping it. Get it serviced "locally" and enjoy it.
Selling it: As buyer i would prefer to get it serviced locally to me.

So i think you have:
Lemania Caliber 1900,
Ref 552,
1/5 Decimal devision
Split second timer - Continuous motion - Breguet Hairspring.

All the best
P
Edited:
 
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Forgot to add my 249 guess
zip/postcode in Canada?
Well number?
Plot number?
Dial code?
..P
 
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@Bleurk
Thinking about my answer to should the dial at six always be running.
When i found what i think you have, I didnt really register the name,
"Split second timer - Continuous motion - Breguet Hairspring" .... (Marche Permanente)
Need some of the real collectors/watchmakers to chime in with actual knowledge
@uwsearch can you help? Does "continuous motion" mean always running second hand at 6?
Does it have a different meaning, non ticking hands? Other technical application for continuous? The "Side knob" has no effect on 30min counter(Continuous?)?


I will pass over to experts now, thanks for entertaining me and congrats again on a great find in toolbox. A real gem of a tool!

.P
Edited:
 
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Hi @Bleurk

I/we don't have any solid data to work with when it comes to Lemania (Much of the records are lost)
Please take some of my answers as best efforts only. The others with a pinch of salt, I am just a fan and have not got any reference piece to compare to.
So Congrats on a great family piece, this is how I ended up with 6 of the same watch. As I got handed my grandads watch from Dad 😀

My humble ideas on your great question
1.
A general idea about its make, year, use case. Was it used for sports, horse-races who knows. And how do I operate it? Is is normal that the bottom dial just keeps going?

@Bleurk Please provide a diameter measurement. it will help with guessing the model number.
Make is Lemania and has a very rich history making high quality precision time pieces for military units in RCAF, RAF etc to BBC
but also providing 3rd party companies like Omega (very long list) with movements to use in their timepieces. To learn more about the Brand Google is your friend. A starter for 10
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemania

So the Year is approximate 1952-53 based on the chart. give or take +/- a few years. Id say a 50s piece.
@Omegafanman Can you give a year for RAF Milspec doc 1271A Rev 1?

Use case
as mentioned we need to know more about who or what your Granddad did from the 50s onward? Found in toolbox. So same question for toolbox. Only big guesses here Industry/Military/Sport
Minimise your operation/use of the item, it's like starting 1950's car without any checks for water, oil, gas... by a mechanic and still it worked. Just stop playing with it before something costly goes ping.
FYI best guess use,
1 Ball / winder to start
2 Flat to stop first split hand
3 Ball / winder to stop second split hand
4 Ball and Flat together (see @Omegafanman RAF doc for better vocabulary than mine)
And yes/no the bottom dial should not be always running. Lets hope you're at point 1 or 2 in best guess steps.

Typo?
2/3/4. If I'm standing over an uncommon and coveted piece I might try to sell it, I don't think it had any sentimental value to my grandfather since it was left in a toolbox, and I think it might better serve in a collectors stash who could appreciate it far more. Ballpark what do you think the value is? Is it worth it to get it serviced and cleaned up pre-sale?
If it's not worth that much, I might just get it serviced, cleaned up and easy to open if its not too expensive to do so that I have a nice memento to give my father. It seems like its working fine. If anyone has some recommendations, I live in Montréal QC, Canada.


Popularity: Good question, its a common workhorse of good quality. The age old supply and demand balance, what does the buyer need vs seller want.
Note: I'm not a dealer but you have loads of sites at hand on the internet eg
Chrono24: https://www.chrono24.co.uk/lemania/pocket-watch-vintage-steel-stop-watch--id19844315.htm
ebay: https://www.google.com/search?q=lemania stopwatch ebay&rlz=1C5CHFA_enGB826GB826&sxsrf=ALeKk00MOnsbBBQtApkj-CdWvbNh4EAS-Q:1625489977871&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjz0t2F_svxAhX0QEEAHQfACKkQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=1440&bih=744

To give you an idea of price range.
Some are in good condition and have been serviced,
Some sites have higher fees for listings
Add dealers margins.
Delivery, Import and Taxes

My advice if keeping it. Get it serviced "locally" and enjoy it.
Selling it: As buyer i would prefer to get it serviced locally to me.

So i think you have:
Lemania Caliber 1900,
Ref 552,
1/5 Decimal devision
Split second timer - Continuous motion - Breguet Hairspring.

All the best
P

Great information - When you pull on a thread it slowly unravels :0) - ref Air Publication 1275 I think it was published around 1939 but was updated during the war. I have seen copies of 1275A dated around 1943.
 
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Hi @Bleurk

I/we don't have any solid data to work with when it comes to Lemania (Much of the records are lost)
Please take some of my answers as best efforts only. The others with a pinch of salt, I am just a fan and have not got any reference piece to compare to.
So Congrats on a great family piece, this is how I ended up with 6 of the same watch. As I got handed my grandads watch from Dad 😀

My humble ideas on your great question
1.
A general idea about its make, year, use case. Was it used for sports, horse-races who knows. And how do I operate it? Is is normal that the bottom dial just keeps going?

@Bleurk Please provide a diameter measurement. it will help with guessing the model number.
Make is Lemania and has a very rich history making high quality precision time pieces for military units in RCAF, RAF etc to BBC
but also providing 3rd party companies like Omega (very long list) with movements to use in their timepieces. To learn more about the Brand Google is your friend. A starter for 10
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemania

So the Year is approximate 1952-53 based on the chart. give or take +/- a few years. Id say a 50s piece.
@Omegafanman Can you give a year for RAF Milspec doc 1271A Rev 1?

Use case
as mentioned we need to know more about who or what your Granddad did from the 50s onward? Found in toolbox. So same question for toolbox. Only big guesses here Industry/Military/Sport
Minimise your operation/use of the item, it's like starting 1950's car without any checks for water, oil, gas... by a mechanic and still it worked. Just stop playing with it before something costly goes ping.
FYI best guess use,
1 Ball / winder to start
2 Flat to stop first split hand
3 Ball / winder to stop second split hand
4 Ball and Flat together (see @Omegafanman RAF doc for better vocabulary than mine)
And yes/no the bottom dial should not be always running. Lets hope you're at point 1 or 2 in best guess steps.

Typo?
2/3/4. If I'm standing over an uncommon and coveted piece I might try to sell it, I don't think it had any sentimental value to my grandfather since it was left in a toolbox, and I think it might better serve in a collectors stash who could appreciate it far more. Ballpark what do you think the value is? Is it worth it to get it serviced and cleaned up pre-sale?
If it's not worth that much, I might just get it serviced, cleaned up and easy to open if its not too expensive to do so that I have a nice memento to give my father. It seems like its working fine. If anyone has some recommendations, I live in Montréal QC, Canada.


Popularity: Good question, its a common workhorse of good quality. The age old supply and demand balance, what does the buyer need vs seller want.
Note: I'm not a dealer but you have loads of sites at hand on the internet eg
Chrono24: https://www.chrono24.co.uk/lemania/pocket-watch-vintage-steel-stop-watch--id19844315.htm
ebay: https://www.google.com/search?q=lemania stopwatch ebay&rlz=1C5CHFA_enGB826GB826&sxsrf=ALeKk00MOnsbBBQtApkj-CdWvbNh4EAS-Q:1625489977871&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjz0t2F_svxAhX0QEEAHQfACKkQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=1440&bih=744

To give you an idea of price range.
Some are in good condition and have been serviced,
Some sites have higher fees for listings
Add dealers margins.
Delivery, Import and Taxes

My advice if keeping it. Get it serviced "locally" and enjoy it.
Selling it: As buyer i would prefer to get it serviced locally to me.

So i think you have:
Lemania Caliber 1900,
Ref 552,
1/5 Decimal devision
Split second timer - Continuous motion - Breguet Hairspring.

All the best
P

Incredible! Thanks for all this information. Very enlightening. The diameter is 51 mm if that helps. And on second thought I will hold on to it. Learning more about the stopwatch and the likelihood that my grandfather used it for his business (which was his pride and joy) makes its that much more priceless 😁 If anyone has recommendations for servicing in the Montreal area I'm open to suggestions!
 
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Hi @Bleurk

I/we don't have any solid data to work with when it comes to Lemania (Much of the records are lost)
Please take some of my answers as best efforts only. The others with a pinch of salt, I am just a fan and have not got any reference piece to compare to.
So Congrats on a great family piece, this is how I ended up with 6 of the same watch. As I got handed my grandads watch from Dad 😀

My humble ideas on your great question
1.
A general idea about its make, year, use case. Was it used for sports, horse-races who knows. And how do I operate it? Is is normal that the bottom dial just keeps going?

@Bleurk Please provide a diameter measurement. it will help with guessing the model number.
Make is Lemania and has a very rich history making high quality precision time pieces for military units in RCAF, RAF etc to BBC
but also providing 3rd party companies like Omega (very long list) with movements to use in their timepieces. To learn more about the Brand Google is your friend. A starter for 10
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemania

So the Year is approximate 1952-53 based on the chart. give or take +/- a few years. Id say a 50s piece.
@Omegafanman Can you give a year for RAF Milspec doc 1275A Rev 1?

Use case
as mentioned we need to know more about who or what your Granddad did from the 50s onward? Found in toolbox. So same question for toolbox. Only big guesses here Industry/Military/Sport
Minimise your operation/use of the item, it's like starting 1950's car without any checks for water, oil, gas... by a mechanic and still it worked. Just stop playing with it before something costly goes ping.
FYI best guess use,
1 Ball / winder to start
2 Flat to stop first split hand
3 Ball / winder to stop second split hand
4 Ball and Flat together (see @Omegafanman RAF doc for better vocabulary than mine)
And yes/no the bottom dial should not be always running. Lets hope you're at point 1 or 2 in best guess steps.

Typo?
2/3/4. If I'm standing over an uncommon and coveted piece I might try to sell it, I don't think it had any sentimental value to my grandfather since it was left in a toolbox, and I think it might better serve in a collectors stash who could appreciate it far more. Ballpark what do you think the value is? Is it worth it to get it serviced and cleaned up pre-sale?
If it's not worth that much, I might just get it serviced, cleaned up and easy to open if its not too expensive to do so that I have a nice memento to give my father. It seems like its working fine. If anyone has some recommendations, I live in Montréal QC, Canada.


Popularity: Good question, its a common workhorse of good quality. The age old supply and demand balance, what does the buyer need vs seller want.
Note: I'm not a dealer but you have loads of sites at hand on the internet eg
Chrono24: https://www.chrono24.co.uk/lemania/pocket-watch-vintage-steel-stop-watch--id19844315.htm
ebay: https://www.google.com/search?q=lemania stopwatch ebay&rlz=1C5CHFA_enGB826GB826&sxsrf=ALeKk00MOnsbBBQtApkj-CdWvbNh4EAS-Q:1625489977871&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjz0t2F_svxAhX0QEEAHQfACKkQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=1440&bih=744

To give you an idea of price range.
Some are in good condition and have been serviced,
Some sites have higher fees for listings
Add dealers margins.
Delivery, Import and Taxes

My advice if keeping it. Get it serviced "locally" and enjoy it.
Selling it: As buyer i would prefer to get it serviced locally to me.

So i think you have:
Lemania Caliber 1900,
Ref 552,
1/5 Decimal devision
Split second timer - Continuous motion - Breguet Hairspring.

All the best
P
Intresting post. This post is partly how I found this forum - I, also, have a Lemania stopwatch (1959?) I'm researching.

I started a new thread here:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/lemania-nero-1959.135508/