Speedy: 3861 or chocolate dial 1863?

[DdKk]

Hello all, I'm new to this forum, and new to modern Omegas (have my grandfather's 30T2 from the 1940s). I wonder if I could get some views on what is ultimately, I'm aware, a matter of quite a personal choice, probably with no clear right answer. Still, people with more Omega insight and experience may enlighten me here...

I intend to address the lack of a modern Omega in my small collection by getting a Moonwatch, and am torn between two options. I love (and prefer) the look of the ref 311.32.42.30.13.001 (chocolate dial, calibre 1863), but I adore the technology of the calibre 3861. I value accuracy in a mechanical watch, too.

If Omega produced a chocolate-dial version of the current watch, it would be an easy choice. As it stands, I can get one or the other. There is barely a difference in price between a near-mint, recently-serviced chocolate dial exemplar I've located, and a new (slightly discounted) 3861. How do I go about this choice?

Edited: Feb 9, 2024

 

[Meme-Dweller]

Chocolate is rarer and will be increasingly more difficult to obtain in good condition in the future. The 3861 will be around for a while and in far greater numbers. You could always add the 3861 to your collection later on, funds permitting.

 

[DdKk]

Meme-Dweller

Chocolate is rarer and will be increasingly more difficult to obtain in good condition in the future. The 3861 will be around for a while and in far greater numbers. You could always add the 3861 to your collection later on, funds permitting.

Good point, thank you! I am unlikely to add a second Speedmaster in future, but if my fondness for the brown dial weakens, I suppose it will be relatively straightforward to swap it for 3861 in a few years' time. Assuming, that is, that the chocolate dial hasn't depreciated too radically in the meantime...

 

[chiefenergy]

IMHO I would begin the journey with a 3861 hesalite.

 

[DdKk]

chiefenergy

IMHO I would begin the journey with a 3861 hesalite.

I can see the point. Thank you!

 

[paddymoran]

You mention that you value accuracy and perhaps the 3861 is more accurate that the 1863 but I’ve never had any issues with accuracy of the 1863. Also, given you’d be hand winding the watch regularly it provides an opportunity to quickly check current time keeping.

 

[DdKk]

paddymoran

You mention that you value accuracy and perhaps the 3861 is more accurate that the 1863 but I’ve never had any issues with accuracy of the 1863. Also, given you’d be hand winding the watch regularly it provides an opportunity to quickly check current time keeping.

Thank you, your feedback on the 1863 is valuable! I'm not fanatical about accuracy in a mechanical watch, but watches I've had that gained or lost over 10 seconds a day usually ended up not being worn. If a (freshly serviced) 1863 works within this ballpark, it would certainly not be a problem. Thanks again!

 

[Foo2rama]

Chocolates where sold for a long time with few takers.

interesting watches, and somewhat unique in the are a dark brown dial sports watch.

if you lean towards tans and browns they are amazing pick ups. I lean towards blacks and blues, so for me it’s not a piece that would be as versatile.

 

[DdKk]

Foo2rama

Chocolates where sold for a long time with few takers.

interesting watches, and somewhat unique in the are a dark brown dial sports watch.

if you lean towards tans and browns they are amazing pick ups. I lean towards blacks and blues, so for me it’s not a piece that would be as versatile.

Thank you! Like you, I actually lean towards black, sometimes grey or blue, and tend to dislike tan or brown. The chocolate dial Speedmaster (or espresso dial, as I prefer to think of it) did not appeal to me much in photos. However, having seen one in the metal, I found it stunning, and was hooked! The brown is very dark--darker than it looks in most photos--and the black bezel makes the effect more subtle still. I would put it on a black strap, too. I understand that it was designed to evoke the effect of the tropical dials, and (particularly on a bracelet or a black strap) I think it does that successfully, looking like a slightly off-colour black watch. Still, I understand why it is something of a marmite choice.

 

[ErichPryde]

Op: I was recently faced with a similar decision between a prior generation 1863 and a current generation 3861. I ended up picking up the 1863, partly because of the dial text and partly because I can have it serviced at a local watchmaker in the future.


After 18 days of of wear, in which time I have not adjusted the time or let the watch stop, it's picked up ~10 seconds. A well serviced 1863 can be very accurate, much more so than your "at 10 seconds a day wouldn't wear" measure.

That said, there's a lot of reports that suggests the 3861 is much more accurate than one second a day (and maybe even a half second a day). My experience with a 8912 75th anniversary seamaster was that over a ~6-month period of daily wear and no resetting, it typically lost or gained only fractions of a second per day, and would take a week to lose or gain a second. When I finally took it off to put on the speedmaster, it was at 0 again. That's not the 3861 obviously, and although I have seen similar reports in the coaxial chronographs, I honestly don't know whether or not that is representative of the overall accuracy of the current coaxial movements.

Also... my Speedmaster being slightly ahead doesn't put me off from wearing it. I find that just under one second a day really doesn't matter to me compared to the Seamaster. (EDIT for clarity: just over one second a day, as I originally typed, wouldn't bother me. I'm not sure at what point the accuacy would bother me, I love the look of the watch.)

I think for me the bottom line for me would be, buy the dial you'd be happiest with, because that is what you are going to be looking at every day.

Edited: Feb 10, 2024

 

[DdKk]

ErichPryde

Op: I was recently faced with a similar decision between a prior generation 1863 and a current generation 3861. I ended up picking up the 1863, partly because of the dial text and partly because I can have it serviced at a local watchmaker in the future.


After 18 days of of wear, in which time I have not adjusted the time or let the watch stop, it's picked up ~10 seconds. A well serviced 1863 can be very accurate, much more so than your "at 10 seconds a day wouldn't wear" measure.

That said, there's a lot of reports that suggests the 3861 is much more accurate than one second a day. My experience with a 8912 75th anniversary seamaster was that over a ~6-month period of daily wear and no resetting, it typically lost or gained only fractions of a second per day, and would take a week to lose or gain a second. When I finally took it off to put on the speedmaster, it was at 0 again. That's not the 3861 obviously, and although I have seen similar reports in the coaxial chronographs, I honestly don't know whether or not that is representative of the overall accuracy of the current coaxial movements.

Also... my Speedmaster being slightly ahead doesn't put me off from wearing it. I find that just over one second a day really doesn't matter to me compared to the Seamaster.

I think for me the bottom line for me would be, buy the dial you'd be happiest with, because that is what you are going to be looking at every day.

Thank you so much for a wealth of insight and good advice! Wow, the accuracy of your Seamaster is amazing. This kind of accuracy would in and of itself strengthen my bond with a watch (well, assuming I like it for other reasons as well, of course), and it is indeed one thing that draws me towards the co-axial Moonwatch.

Having said that, a few seconds off per day wouldn't put me off a watch. I very rarely monitor 'per day' accuracy; it's those watches that gain or lose whole minutes per week that I end up instinctively neglecting. The 1863 performance you've experienced is much better than 'good enough', as far as I'm concerned.

Your bottom line strikes a chord! Thanks again for this.