Speedy 145.012 help

[Gman77]

Hi, I have the chance to buy a circa 67 speedy with a 321 calibre.

The watch was serviced in 2018 by omega and had the dial and bezel replaced. It comes with a modern bracelet as well. Essentially mint given the service. Movement was also refreshed I think.

The dial and bezel being replaced means that it doesn't have the DON and no tritium on the dial.

Price is around 7.5k USD.

Question is should I pull the trigger? The 321 movement is a beaut and I plan on having a sapphire case back instead of the classic metal to showcase. It's a bummer that it isn't necessarily vintage given the replacements, but I'd almost rather that than a very dinged up watch.

I'm also concerned about durability - it's not something I'd wear daily, but I would be hoping to wear it maybe once a week or a fortnight.

Any feedback would be great!

Thanks!

 

[watch_my_six]

Welcome! In general, you will likely get better feedback if you include photos of the piece in question. Without photos, we have no idea of the actual condition of any of the components, including of the movement and whether or not the serial number is even appropriate. Without photos, it's pretty difficult to provide informed advice regarding acquiring such a piece (or any piece), especially for a particular price.

That said, even if the movement and rest of the watch checked out, I personally wouldn't pull the trigger. Even if you are OK with a service dial and service bezel on this reference (which I would not be), I don't think it would be worth $7.5k. The April 2024 Speedmaster101 price chart has "good" condition 145.012's at $6,500, and I don't even think that this reference with a service dial and service bezel could be considered "good" condition, given that these components are arguably the most important parts of this reference, and perhaps of any vintage watch (in addition to the case, among other parts of course).

Wear and tear may seem undesirable if you are new to vintage watches, but there's a reason that originality is generally so highly valued by vintage watch enthusiasts, even over condition (to an extent). May I ask what draws you to this reference?

Unless you don't think that your tastes will evolve as you learn more, and/or you are OK buying and selling as your tastes evolve, potentially at a loss, then I would hold out for a more original example with a few more dings, I mean a little more character ; )

Edited: May 24, 2024

 

[Davidt]

“Should I pull the trigger?”

Based solely on the info you’ve given and without any pictures. No.

 

[hansaboy]

Here is some reading...

https://speedmaster101.com/blog/why-dont-we-want-service-parts-a-quick-guide-for-a-newcomer/

 

[Gman77]

Ahh I see that the consensus is no. I think the main reason I'd want a 145.012 is for the movement. I thought it would be a cheaper/easier solution than getting an ed white 321...

 

[hansaboy]

If you want the 321 (vintage) movement, why not search the Private Sales here?
There are a few lovely ones for sale!

 

[Ron_W]

Gman77

Ahh I see that the consensus is no. I think the main reason I'd want a 145.012 is for the movement. I thought it would be a cheaper/easier solution than getting an ed white 321...

The watch looks very good to me, movement as well, and for regular wear, the cal 321 can take it, you are better off with a well maintained and recently ( 1 -2 years max ) serviced watch. Which means Omega will have changed parts ( crown and pushers as well ) so you will have a 50 year old watch up-to-specs. But i understand you are not after all 1967 original ?
But...... the "value" for most here ( collectors and aficionados die hards ) is in originality of the watch and its parts. Like a Tritium dial, hands and for this model a dot over 90 bezel. If these were present the 7,5K asking would be a pretty good price.

So for your specified use i think this watch is a good choice and looks almost new, but the asking price is still to high i think so try and get that down a bit. Still much cheaper than an all original or new c 321 !

 

[Davidt]

Exactly what @Ron_W said. Nothing wrong with wanting a 321 with modern service parts if that floats your boat but the price should reflect that. This is too expensive

 

[Dan S]

It doesn't sound to me that your are really attracted to a vintage watch, so I'd recommend buying a modern watch. In any case, the price of that watch is far too high.

 

[Gman77]

Thank you all! What would the recommended price be then?

 

[140dave]

The pictures on this one are awful, but it’s a recently sold -67 (?probably?) with service parts, just to give you an idea of how service parts affect resale value. Different service parts and admittedly one of the worst listings ever but just as an example of what happens to prices with not original parts.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2261458283...wbeJppsTyy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[watch_my_six]

Gman77

Thank you all! What would the recommended price be then?

This is a total guess here, but assuming the dial, bezel, case/back, crown/pushers, hands, and crystal are all service parts (or in "poor" condition unless demonstrated otherwise with appropriate photos), maybe around $4-5k, depending also on the bracelet (is it an 1171)?

But even for that price, I would be asking myself if/why I really want a 321 movement if I'm willing to have it in a completely non-original package (sort of a contradiction in spirit, no?). Because for that price, you can get a very nice 3590.50 if you want something with a little neo-vintage charm (https://omegaforums.net/threads/199...l-condition-4-195-shipped-and-insured.172588/), or even a 3861 if you want something newer and you're a little patient (https://omegaforums.net/threads/speedmaster-professional-3861-hesalite-2022.162828/).

 

[kingsrider]

jspdl

sort of a contradiction in spirit?

So true. I understand what the OP is trying to achieve but, I think the "spirit" here (in this forum) is be true to the history of the watch, don't equivocate.

 

[Foo2rama]

Why is the 321 so important to you that you get a vintage movement with all new parts except for the case?

that watch has no soul. One of the reasons the older watches are so loved is the wonderful way they have aged, and appearance sets the price on these.

 

[NotJackson]

I’m solidly in the “no” camp as well. I think the point of buying a cal 321 Speedmaster is a certain level of originality. I’d love to own a museum piece, but I buy watches to wear. So realistically I expect some aged tritium, paint loss on the hands, a bezel ding or two, and stuff like that.

As a data point, I recently bought this 145.012-67 from a nearby (~40 miles away) auction. I believe it to be all original, on a strap (so basically head only). Cost me about $5k shipped, including tax, auction fees, etc. IMO not a screaming bargain, hopefully not an egregious overpay, either.

 

[watch_my_six]

NotJackson

I’m solidly in the “no” camp as well. I think the point of buying a cal 321 Speedmaster is a certain level of originality. I’d love to own a museum piece, but I buy watches to wear. So realistically I expect some aged tritium, paint loss on the hands, a bezel ding or two, and stuff like that.

As a data point, I recently bought this 145.012-67 from a nearby (~40 miles away) auction. I believe it to be all original, on a strap (so basically head only). Cost me about $5k shipped, including tax, auction fees, etc. IMO not a screaming bargain, hopefully not an egregious overpay, either.

Seems like a pretty good deal (edit: but I also just noticed the missing lume at 1 o'clock). Is the serial number in the right range? How are the case edges? And is the crown flat-foot/24-tooth?

Edited: May 24, 2024

 

[Davidt]

In terms of valuation I’d say it worth around $4k. Maybe it would go for slightly less/more on the day depending on bidders etc. certainly not worth $7.5k imo

 

[ibis888]

Some nice watches in the Private Sales section as well as over at Speedmaster101s sale site (www.speedmastersales.com) currently being offered in your price range that are all better and offer less downside risk.

 

[NotJackson]

Davidt

In terms of valuation I’d say it worth around $4k. Maybe it would go for slightly less/more on the day depending on bidders etc. certainly not worth $7.5k imo

That sounds about right to me … FWIW, here’s another 145.012-67 with a ton of service parts that recently sold on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/315330354771

I had been in contact with the seller, who told me that he got $4,200 for it.

 

[NotJackson]

jspdl

Seems like a pretty good deal (edit: but I also just noticed the missing lume at 1 o'clock). Is the serial number in the right range? How are the case edges? And is the crown flat-foot/24-tooth?

Case edges are pretty good - I don't think it has been polished, just normal wear. 24 tooth flat foot crown, 2654xxxx serial number (in range). The lume loss on the 1:00 marker was the biggest issue that I saw, and it's pretty hard to see on the wrist. I think this is a good honest watch to wear, not a safe queen.




(Gee, I wonder why it's running fast? And yes, it's on its way out for service)