Speedmaster Reduced Ref 3510.21 (Marui) - A new enthusiast learns

av8ffej

I don't think there's any room for "stupid me" OWa, I would say that you did the right thing even in the absence of all the info. In my limited research here, the only options you(we) have is - a watch that doesn't work to spec, or a watch that works with an updated movement. One could argue very effectively that, if you were wanting to turn it as an investment, selling a "perfect example" of a Speedy Reduced that didn't function would be pushing a rock uphill, at the very best.

D.D.

Hi Av8, may I know what's the cost to Omega service and replacing movement to 3220?

Thank you.

efauser

https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/...s-and-prices/main-steps-of-a-complete-service

av8ffej

Hello All,

Warning: Long post and a little disclaimer – this may very well be old news to many of you. The reason I’m posting it is because, in my research on the Speedmaster Reduced, there were some gaps in my understanding that were difficult for me to ferret out and I thought I would fill in a little bit for my fellow newbie colleagues looking at these specific vintage pieces.


(original sales posting pic)

A little about my knowledge level:

I’ve been “into” watches for as long as I can remember and I have spent countless hours reading all manner of material on calibers, histories, mechanics, aesthetics, investment and artistry. Anything to do with a watch, I've been devouring years. It has only been in the past couple that I’ve made the journey into more “serious” horological examples into the four digits. All of us have our hang-ups about brands, and for a long while mine with Omega was that, ultimately, they were still [cough] Swatches. Yes, I just introduced myself with one of the most loaded paragraphs in forum history. Before the flames lick my chin, read on.

I knew better, I just couldn’t admit it to myself. I had been secretly eyeing a Globemaster for over a year and finally this spring, bought one. It was then that it was easier to come to terms with the fact that I was probably going to need a Speedmaster, and lurking through this forum, didn't help that obsession. As the road winds, I decided the foray would be with a Marui (3510.21) If one ever came up for sale worth buying - I have a panda obsession and tiny wrists. Well, one came up sooner than I thought it would.


(pic pre-service)

Which brings me to this post about the Reduced:

Some weeks ago I found my Marui from a wonderfully communicative seller in Europe who was very accommodating. The watch was keeping time and has only very minor wear and the very faintest beginnings of a patina on the beautiful white dial. I received it and it was better than I could have ever imagined. It’s the ideal size on my wee little wrists and really is a stunner of an example. While the time it was keeping was within tolerances, the reserve you could put on it was not, and the crown was tough to turn. In practice, it was a fair distance from perfect. While I didn’t pay asking price, I probably paid a few hundred more than market, based on these quirks of condition. In talking with the previous owner (who was selling to get the money to get a new grail) he said that he hadn’t serviced it since he bought it from the original owner a few years back.


(first shot on my wrist)

I decided that absent a service paper trail, I should welcome this Marui child into my fold with a proper baseline. I took it to Nesbits here in Seattle, and Tom said “Well, let’s see if you have the 3220 or the 1140.” He came back shaking his head and pointed out that this was probably one of the tail end of the 1140s run because they switched it to the 3220 because of problems.

To be accurate the rotor in my watch is signed 1143 and was correct for this example as supported in this WUS post. The 1140 was replaced by the 1143 in 1996, outlined in this excerpt here [citation unknown].

With all the research, I have done on the movements in the reduced series, I had missed this critical tidbit of information. It’s interesting how, even when you’re on your way down the rabbit hole, not knowing what question to search, you miss the background of why things change and the result of it. Even in this juicy and riviting chronology on the 3220 there is no mention on the reasoning behind the new iteration released in 2000. Primarily because the correct caliber for watches produced before 2000 is the 1140[3], there was no indication that I should be researching WHY there was a change in calibers.


(sale post pic of original movement)

There is a small blurb in Fratello here (paragraph three) where Robert confesses not knowing why they changed. The Watch Guy makes a brief mention of the issue here in this great post on cleaning the 1140. Did you catch the problem in his post? Probably not.

The WHY behind the switch:

Tom at Nesbits was kind enough to explain/demonstrate why they switched:

When you push the activating chrono pusher with slower increasing pressure on the 1140, the chrono second hand jumps the first second. So, in many instances the chrono second hand is missing a full second.

What this means to the vintage buyer:

Independent watchmakers can’t get parts to repair this movement. Omega does not support the repair of this caliber. Period. It’s like the bastard child no one will claim. The remedy? You must send it to Omega for them to pull the 1140 and replace it with the 3220. No ifs, ands or buts.

Initially I felt like a complete ass for having missed this critical information. A newbie that had completely stepped into the steaming pile for a chunk of cash. It was a little consolation that, with the new-found info, it was still tough to ferret out this issue in the searches, so it doesn’t seem to be “Duh, everyone knows that!” information.

As someone new in the enthusiast realm my question has been:

If you have an original reduced with the 1140 and you pull it for a 3220 have you lost the collectability of the example because the movement isn’t strictly correct with the original configuration?

I answered that for myself with “I bought a watch to tell accurate time and look good on my arm. Not satisfy an uptight collector to get top dollar in 15 years.” It would seem that Archer would agree at least to some extent.


(signed crystal through loupe - for those that haven't seen a signed crystal, look closely in the center)

Ultimately, I’m quite content with the decision to get a brand new 3220 movement in the case that can be serviced in the future. This achieves, for the most part, a clean maintenance baseline for the piece and ensures that I have a watch for many years to come that will keep on ticking and, with a new two year warranty on the movement from the manufacturer, it also provides a modicum of piece of mind to ease into this vintage buying thing. Astonishingly, I took the watch into the Omega Boutique on August 10th and received a call August 25th that it was ready for pickup. I went down to pick it up and $825 later had a silky smooth chrono with new pushers and a clean signed crystal.

Let this also be yet another warning to the person who is new to the vintage marketplace that the cost of ownership/maintenance is something that needs to be calculated into the purchase price. Even when you “totally know that this piece is mint.” From what I can tell, if the names start with O, B, or R, getting it serviced properly at your local watchmaker is probably not going to be your first line of defense in ensuring collectability, so budget for a company service and throw a party if you don’t have to send it in.


(Back from the spa)

My intention with this post is to, hopefully, shed a small light on the inner workings of the reduced series of the late 90s that I’m learning. I suppose it’s also a catharsis to admit publicly that I’m painfully new at this and offer thanks to all of you for your incredible wealth of knowledge that helps us new buffoons through this process. This is incredibly humbling.

I hope I haven’t overstepped my bounds in posting this as a first post in the forum. I’ve tried to be thorough in my evaluation and research although I'm sure there are some missteps, and for that I apologize and look forward to the criticism. I just want people to have the opportunity to learn from some of my chronicles, as neophyte as they are.

I'll just sneak back into the shadows here and continue to learn. Thank you, once again!

Normski298

Bit of a thread revival and new to this forum.....

The 3510.21 is a beautiful watch. How are you finding it?

Can I ask whether you had to do any authenticity validation yourself? Or were you lucky enough to be able to find one with papers/ a warranty card?

I've been on the lookout for one for a while now and simply cannot find one with any and I'm really nervous about making an online purchase without peace of mind its not a dial swap.

S

Archer

I would strongly disagree with this. Just based on the sheer number of people I've had ask me to get them this dial, I think there are plenty of watches out there with exchanged dials. Keep in mind that before Swatch cut off the sale of parts to third party resellers, dials were much cheaper and much more plentiful. Using the existing state to argue it's not worth it really is missing how cheap this all was not long ago...

Archer

Not tritium - will be luminova