Speedmaster 145.022-74: A Puzzle

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G'day all. As of now, this thread has been viewed 432 times and so far no 31x/1975 extract has been forthcoming. I promise not to bump the thread daily forever, but I would like to give it every chance of being seen by someone who's in a position to set the record straight.

Let's ask even broader, and maybe this is something just @eugeneandresson can answer given how many extracts he has access to through ilovemyspeedmaster: Has Omega ever issued extracts that don't present serial numbers in a chronologically sequential order? Like a 3100500 movement with a 4th April 1969 extract, and a 3100999 movement with a 28th March 1969 extract (Later serial = earlier date).

Hope that's not too confusing... 😵‍💫
 
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Let's ask even broader, and maybe this is something just @eugeneandresson can answer given how many extracts he has access to through ilovemyspeedmaster: Has Omega ever issued extracts that don't present serial numbers in a chronologically sequential order? Like a 3100500 movement with a 4th April 1969 extract, and a 3100999 movement with a 28th March 1969 extract (Later serial = earlier date).

Hope that's not too confusing... 😵‍💫

Not confusing, and quite a few actually...
 
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Interesting. What's the biggest discrepancy in time that you've seen?
 
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Thank you all, another gold mine of information, especially since I'm interested in one day adding a -74 to my collection as this is my birth year! Good to learn I would be looking for a metal brake rather than plastic as I'd reallly like to get one as close to January production as possible! Thanks @mancio!
 
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A week and a half and about 800 page views so far. Still no 31x/1975 extracts forthcoming.

If I'm right in thinking these don't exist, the extract for @Norfolk's -74 should come back with a production date much earlier than 1975. I would guess 1971. Not because there's anything wrong with his watch, but because that seems to be the way extracts work for these early -74s. Looking forward to hearing when it comes in!
 
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In the first post of this thread, I put forward the following in relation to Speedmaster 145.022-74s:

at the risk of looking silly I'm going put forward a slightly more controversial hypothesis in the hope of bringing these examples out: I hypothesise that no official extract from the Omega archives exists for a Speedmaster with a serial number of 31x and a production date of 1975 or later. It should be easy and quick to show this hypothesis to be false. And I'll be happy to have learnt something if that happens.

After almost three months and a little over 1000 page views, zero examples of extracts for 145.022-74s with 31x serial numbers and production dates in 1975 have been brought forward. But what's a bit more exciting is that @Norfolk has now received his extract. Whenever you're testing a hypothesis, it's best to put your cards on the table first, then undertake observation. Apart from the general call for people to bring forward examples, @Norfolk's extract was really the first specific opportunity I became aware of through the forum to test this hypothesis. So with huge thanks to @Norfolk, here's the result ...



Well, whaddyaknow, a -74 with a 31x serial and a production date of 1971. The hypothesis stands despite what I think it's fair to say is now two attempts to falsify it: The first was the general call for counter-examples. The second is @Norfolk's extract.

What does this mean? Well, for now at least, I think we must put to bed any suggestion that a -74 with a 31x serial number should, if it is all original and correct, come with an extract that gives its production date as 1975 or later. Despite attempts to find them, no such extract has been shown to exist. On the contrary, these watches consistently yield extracts with much earlier production dates - typically in 1971. While these things must always be subject to revision in the face of contradictory data, there is currently no basis in evidence for asserting that this combination of sub-reference, serial number, and production date suggests a lack of originality. I think that's progress 👍

EDIT: The interested reader should see below, where evidence that disproves this hypothesis is presented.
Edited:
 
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In the first post of this thread, I put forward the following in relation to Speedmaster 145.022-74s:



After almost three months and a little over 1000 page views, zero examples of extracts for 145.022-74s with 31x serial numbers and production dates in 1975 have been brought forward. But what's a bit more exciting is that @Norfolk has now received his extract. Whenever you're testing a hypothesis, it's best to put your cards on the table first, then undertake observation. Apart from the general call for people to bring forward examples, @Norfolk's extract was really the first specific opportunity I became aware of through the forum to test this hypothesis. So with huge thanks to @Norfolk, here's the result ...



Well, whaddyaknow, a -74 with a 31x serial and a production date of 1971. The hypothesis stands despite what I think it's fair to say is now two attempts to falsify it: The first was the general call for counter-examples. The second is @Norfolk's extract.

What does this mean? Well, for now at least, I think we must put to bed any suggestion that a -74 with a 31x serial number should, if it is all original and correct, come with an extract that gives its production date as 1975 or later. Despite attempts to find them, no such extract has been shown to exist. On the contrary, these watches consistently yield extracts with much earlier production dates - typically in 1971. While these things must always be subject to revision in the face of contradictory data, there is currently no basis in evidence for asserting that this combination of sub-reference, serial number, and production date suggests a lack of originality. I think that's progress 👍
Nicely done!
 
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Fits my theory that some got new casebacks in service. Or they sat unsold and -74 casebacks got sent out to dealers to help sell the watches as people wanted the nasa caseback.
 
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Fits my theory that some got new casebacks in service. Or they sat unsold and -74 casebacks got sent out to dealers to help sell the watches as people wanted the nasa caseback.

The NASA caseback began with the -71 though, and we don't see many stepped dials with -74 casebacks (which would suggest pre-moons being swapped for NASA casebacks)

I think what most likely occurred is that after the moon landings, Omega thought they'd sell a boatload of Speedmasters and made a ton of 861 movements slated for them, but instead quartz became much more desirable in that period and the Speedmaster movements sat unsold
 
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The NASA caseback began with the -71 though, and we don't see many stepped dials with -74 casebacks (which would suggest pre-moons being swapped for NASA casebacks)

I think what most likely occurred is that after the moon landings, Omega thought they'd sell a boatload of Speedmasters and made a ton of 861 movements slated for them, but instead quartz became much more desirable in that period and the Speedmaster movements sat unsold

My data on “-74’s” step dials seems to show otherwise. It’s not enough to be conclusive though.

Conversely our reasoning is the same just a different outcome. I think Omega released a lot of watches into the wild in 70 with sea monster backs. As the NASA casebacks hit in 71 the dealers had a hard time moving the older caseback. So they either ordered replacement backs or Omega gave them casebacks to switch out.

Our underlying cause is the same.
Edited:
 
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Fits my theory that some got new casebacks in service. Or they sat unsold and -74 casebacks got sent out to dealers to help sell the watches as people wanted the nasa caseback.

The NASA caseback began with the -71 though, and we don't see many stepped dials with -74 casebacks (which would suggest pre-moons being swapped for NASA casebacks)

The caseback swap idea nicely explains the relatively small number of -74s that we see with step dials. But Adam's got a good point: this doesn't account for most of these watches, which have a coherent set of -74 characteristics, including dome dials. Under the caseback swap hypothesis, what would the watches that got a swap at service or at the AD have started their life as? We're they -69s or -71s with dome dials? I don't think that's a configuration that ever left the Omega factory. In order to get this to work, we would have to hypothesise that both caseback and dial were systematically switched. This is where it starts to be a bit of a stretch. I don't think I've seen or heard any evidence of such a major push by the manufacturer to convert watches at service.

Whatever the explanation, it's at least much more parsimonious to hypothesise that these 31x / 1971 -74s left the factory in the configuration we see them.
 
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Great thread! Thank you for tracking this down!

A question - does anyone have any information on what Omega intended it the extract/records to be - I can’t imagine they would have foresaw a market for this 40+ years ago.

I’m curious if they saw it as a way to track manufactured movement to case refs - dials etc were secondary considerations.

Ie @Foo2rama : I think this theory has merit.
 
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at the risk of looking silly I'm going put forward a slightly more controversial hypothesis in the hope of bringing these examples out: I hypothesise that no official extract from the Omega archives exists for a Speedmaster with a serial number of 31x and a production date of 1975 or later. It should be easy and quick to show this hypothesis to be false. And I'll be happy to have learnt something if that happens.

Despite attempts to find them, no such extract has been shown to exist.

Wanna see something wacky? BOOM!! 😉😁



One owner full set 145.022-74 (1975) Speedmaster full set:

https://www.instagram.com/p/ByYdTfmnvku/?igshid=19zezaj1y6qf4


Edited:
 
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Who said it was unworn? 😵‍💫
The post did I thought.
 
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Wanna see something wacky? BOOM!! 😉😁

Wow, love your work! That appears to be precisely the black swan I've been looking for. Curiouser and curiouser ...