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Speedmaster 145.022-71, questions regarding the lume??

hansaboy
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Hi Speedy Friends (and other Forums Friends of course)!

I am looking at an upcoming auction, and I have a really hard time trying to judge the condition of the lume.
And to make things worse, there is some kind of protection film on the crystal…

I have attached a few pictures.
The first ones are cropped out,
the rest are the full pictures, and if you try and zoom in on these, the lume plots look a bit weird to me,
kind of messy...?

The auction house states that they are untouched....

What do you think?


Skärmavbild 2023-11-26 kl. 18.21.00.png Skärmavbild 2023-11-26 kl. 18.19.45.png 20231115_105759.jpg 20231115_105805.jpg
 
140dave
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Dial looks okay to me but I might question the sweep chrono hand at least and would request a UV shot if available.
 
Aludic
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140dave 140dave
Dial looks okay to me but I might question the sweep chrono hand at least and would request a UV shot if available.

Agree, normally I would question the orange lume too. At the same time, I have seen it a few more times, only with 145.022-71 and -74, so if I'd have to wager a guess, I'd still go with original.
 
pdxleaf
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Determining the originality of lume is very difficult for me. This lume is certainly strange.

The greenish color suggests it could be original.

The edges of the rectangle are sharp, suggesting it could be original.

The shifting of the entire lume rectangle off of the printed dial to one side suggests a relume. It would at least require an hypothesis for how an original lume could be so misplaced. Perhaps it was sloppily applied originally. Possible, but poor quality control.

Assuming a person is satisfied that it is original, is it then attractive? That's something for you to decide yourself. It would be distracting to me.
 
hansaboy
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
Determining the originality of lume is very difficult for me. This lume is certainly strange.

The greenish color suggests it could be original.

The edges of the rectangle are sharp, suggesting it could be original.

The shifting of the entire lume rectangle off of the printed dial to one side suggests a relume. It would at least require an hypothesis for how an original lume could be so misplaced. Perhaps it was sloppily applied originally. Possible, but poor quality control.

Assuming a person is satisfied that it is original, is it then attractive? That's something for you to decide yourself. It would be distracting to me.
Good points there!

I might go to the auction house - that always helps out!
 
gbesq
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The lume on the 71's tends to be green (I owned one, now in the capable hands of Mad Dog), but in my experience it tends to be a very pale lime green. This is like neon green and says relume to me. Also, the orange lume on the chrono hand is very much suspect IMO - that would be fine on a 3590.50, but I've never seen anything like that on a '71.
Edited:
 
befobe
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Mmmmhh if you noticed that point today, you will see it everyday... and it will become unbearable...
Too strange, too greenish, too mismatch colors, a lot of better examples to hunt.
 
Davidt
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It’s a strange one. As above, the expected lume on a 71 is a pale, whitish green, but the texture of this one seems slightly strange.
However, if I had to call it, I’d say original with questionable QC back in the day accounting for the off centred lume. I simply don’t think a relumer would a) get the application so off Centre, and b) if they were sloppy enough to get it off Centre, they wouldn’t have it so precise as most relumes are done by hand.

A more pertinent question for me is “do you find it attractive?” Personally i really like the -71 as it retains the step dial and often a 1039 or 1175, but the lume can be an issue. Occasionally you can get original examples with yellow lume, sometime you get the greenish lume and it looks nice. Equally, that green lume can look naff and kill the attraction of the dial. I fee like this could be a decent one but the pics aren’t sufficient to confirm.

I say this as someone who’s bought three -71’s in the last 3 months::facepalm1::
 
pdxleaf
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Davidt Davidt
I say this as someone who’s bought three -71’s in the last 3 months::facepalm1::

Channeling M'Bob, "Pictures or it didn't happen."
 
SOG53
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Perhaps the apparent misplaced lume is crystal distortion? Examining in hand may alleviate some of these concerns. Good luck!
 
Davidt
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
Channeling M'Bob, "Pictures or it didn't happen."

Lol, fair point. I might actually do a bit of a -71 comparison thread when I get them all in the same place.

First one. Likely the best of the bunch. Original, perfect dial with yellow lume, matching hands. Unpolished case, red dot on caseback, screws look untouched. Original 1039. Has an engraving on the rear from ‘American Air’ so I assume it’s a rarely worn presentation watch.
I genuinely think this is Excellent but I also think it’s a keeper.
AD5AAC04-EF12-4E8B-A4A8-7EF23F17ADDF.jpeg CC9F7AE1-7F44-4F9A-B5B6-24FA10737FA1.jpeg 44EBF7FD-867C-49E8-8FE4-3712DFB64D86.jpeg



Second one. Currently away for service so I can’t get more photos, not as good as the first, but dial is clean displaying the more commonly seen greenish lume. Case is also sharp. Hard to value a some elements are very good, while others are fair. Probably average out at Goodish.
CA9F8C43-2051-4AD1-804B-A810827C2BD4.jpeg 67502E63-EDB7-420B-9F80-533F21BE00CA.jpeg


Third one. Hasn’t yet arrived from the seller so pics to follow.
 
SOG53
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IMG_8344.jpeg
Really like both. I like the lime green lume I have a 220 bezel from Sept 1970 with same.
 
pdxleaf
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Davidt Davidt
Lol, fair point. I might actually do a bit of a -71 comparison thread when I get them all in the same place.

First one. Likely the best of the bunch. Original, perfect dial with yellow lume, matching hands. Unpolished case, red dot on caseback, screws look untouched. Original 1039. Has an engraving on the rear from ‘American Air’ so I assume it’s a rarely worn presentation watch.
I genuinely think this is Excellent but I also think it’s a keeper.
AD5AAC04-EF12-4E8B-A4A8-7EF23F17ADDF.jpeg CC9F7AE1-7F44-4F9A-B5B6-24FA10737FA1.jpeg 44EBF7FD-867C-49E8-8FE4-3712DFB64D86.jpeg



Second one. Currently away for service so I can’t get more photos, not as good as the first, but dial is clean displaying the more commonly seen greenish lume. Case is also sharp. Hard to value a some elements are very good, while others are fair. Probably average out at Goodish.
CA9F8C43-2051-4AD1-804B-A810827C2BD4.jpeg 67502E63-EDB7-420B-9F80-533F21BE00CA.jpeg


Third one. Hasn’t yet arrived from the seller so pics to follow.


That first one is the thing dreams are made of. 🥰

Always nice to see an excellent watch. Thanks!
 
paddymoran
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gbesq gbesq
The lume on the 71's tends to be green … but in my experience it tends to be a very pale lime green. This is like neon green and says relume to me. Also, the orange lume on the chrono hand is very much suspect IMO - that would be fine on a 3590.50, but I've never seen anything like that on a '71.

There are a number of very informative tables on Speedys - from Speedmaster101 condition/ pricing, production date ranges for bracelets that came with each model plus all the information in Moonwatch Only but I also think it would be really helpful if there was a table produced setting out the expected lume colour for each Speedmaster model. Not sure if it’s already available?? Personally, I wouldn’t be up to the task.
 
hansaboy
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Well….
I think that Davids pictures ended my thoughts regarding the watch that I was trying to understand!
And also the comments that you Guys gave me.

It could be that the film and the pictures changes the look of the lume, but I don't think so.
Even if the lume would be correct, I might be bothered "down the road" with the appearance of them?


But there is always the "filthy" cheep price that might change my mind...🤦



As usual - thanks for all the help!
👍
 
Davidt
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Where’s the auction Hans - could you view in person (I have no plans to bid btw, I’m going to love on one of my -71’s as it is).
I feel like it might be worth pursuing, I’d just want more info on the lume.
 
hansaboy
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Davidt Davidt
Where’s the auction Hans - could you view in person (I have no plans to bid btw, I’m going to love on one of my -71’s as it is).
I feel like it might be worth pursuing, I’d just want more info on the lume.
DM sent!
 
gbesq
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spacemission spacemission
The green lume starts to appear on the -69 dials, specifically with the sw.
It would be interesting to know the approximate serial number range when that change occurred. The lume on my ‘69 Straight Writing is a very pale yellow.
upload_2023-11-27_5-1-45.jpeg
Edited:
 
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