Forums Latest Auctions Members

So... any of our members here have an interest in firearms?

  1. Waltesefalcon

    Waltesefalcon Jan 28, 2018

    Posts
    1,199
    Likes
    2,746
    Well if only one gun is going to move you, that would be the one.
     
    Mtek likes this.
  2. noelekal

    noelekal Jan 28, 2018

    Posts
    2,769
    Likes
    14,547
    Whoo! Pythons are way cool and always appropriate.

    A 1978 Colt Python lives here. An Colt .357 Magnum predecessor to the Python lives here. Much harder to find, the Colt 3 5 7 just doesn't have the panache or the collector following ... yet.

    Wrote this up a few years back for another forum or two.

    Premium Placeholder for the Python.

    Hey, doesn't that sound like a good title as would be found in a gun rag?
    [​IMG]
    Got this revolver back at the end of March after incubating the deal for two years or longer. The photo was taken in the middle of the night at the gun show while doing security duty, after giving it a detail strip and scrubbing up. Have not had time to properly introduce it. I've still not shot it enough to suit me but have shot it enough to gain an impression.


    While the .357 Magnum cartridge was developed by Smith & Wesson and introduced in 1935 on their N-Frame revolver, Colt quickly adopted the potent new revolver cartridge, serving it up in a couple of revolvers found in the Colt catalog. Relatively small quantities of both the famous Single Action Army and the gargantuan New Service revolvers were produced and shipped by Colt during the late 1930s and right up until World War II when all production was given over to critical military contract requirements.

    The .357 Magnum cartridge became an instant sensation the moment it hit the market and interest and demand far outstripped the minuscule quantities shipped from both the Smith & Wesson and Colt factories. While the well-deserved interest in the .357 Magnum remained high, the interruption caused by the war years, along with the immediate post-war demand for production of all models for civilian and export needs, impeded production of revolvers chambered for what was then apparently considered only a special-interest cartridge.

    Revolvers chambered for the .357 Magnum were still in very short supply into the early 1950s with only the small pre-war production by Smith & Wesson and Colt in circulation and supplemented by the barest trickle of .357 Magnum revolvers being produced by Smith & Wesson on their large N-Frame. A .357 Magnum was a desirable and costly handgun, new or used, in the early 1950s.

    Enter Colt, grasping the extent of market demand for a very flexible, useful, and powerful cartridge and wanting to introduce a new revolver of more modern proportions.

    Colt did not have either of the pre-war revolver models in production that had housed the .357 Magnum. Production of the wheezy ol' Single Action Army had not been resumed after World War II due to a genuine lack of interest in this model in an era preceding the advent of the television western and the fast-draw craze. The grand New Service (my personal favorite Colt model) was a casualty of World War II and was not returned to production post-war. It is said that the machinery for producing New Service revolvers was actually moved outside to suffer exposure to the weather in the rush to provide space in the Colt factory for increased production of military contract small arms of all kinds. The New Service machinery ruined.

    Colt determined that their E-Frame, also known as the ".41 frame"size could be utilized for what they had in mind. Originally introduced with the Army Special model in 1907 and then still being used for the Official Police and several other Colt revolve models, the E-Frame size could be engineered to be amply strong enough for the high-intensity .357 Magnum cartridge. These revolvers were very similar in size to the later Smith & Wesson L-Frame revolvers. Holsters will interchange.

    Colt envisioned workhorse revolvers with adjustable sights and chambered for the .38 Special and a gussied-up premium revolver especially designed around the .357 Magnum cartridge for the more discriminating pistolero. The result was the 1953 introduction of the Colt Trooper in .38 Special along with the premium companion model in the Colt line, the 3 5 7. The trooper offered Colt's standard service blue finish but also featured the bonus of adjustable sights. The 3 5 7 Model carried things a bit further. Colt saw fit to equip the upscale 3 5 7 with a frame-mounted firing pin rather than the traditional hammer-mounted firing pin as the Trooper possessed. This change in firing pin design was considered to be important enough by Colt to rename the 3 5 7 frame, the "I-Frame" even though it shared the same size and internals as the tried-and-true E-Frame.

    The 3 5 7 was unique, being the only Colt Model using the I-Frame for a couple of years until the introduction of another iconic Colt model, the fabulous Python which also utilized this unique frame variant.

    The 3 5 7 initially offered a more finely finished exterior, an expertly polished version of Colt's Duo-Tone finish. Colt had previously produced blue revolvers with this finish for several years but discontinued it after the first year of the 3 5 7 production. The top strap, back strap, bottom of trigger guard and frame, and cylinder flutes were given a soft, matte blue effect, with the balance of the revolver polished to give a bright blue finish. This is not as apparent in most photos but is attractive when actually viewing the guns.

    The 3 5 7 came in blue finish only with barrel lengths of four and six inches. Later the Florida Highway Patrol obtained 3 5 7 revolvers with 5-inch barrels and nickel finish on a special contract with Colt. I'm not certain whether nickel was ever offered on regular production 3 5 7 guns. May have seen some on GunBroker but can't verify their authenticity.

    The 3 5 7 could be ordered in any combination of standard service stocks and hammer spur, or with newly introduced fully checkered (really fully checkered) target stocks or wide target hammer spur.

    The original Colt target stocks as they first appeared on both the 3 5 7 and the Officer's Model Match are very handsome. A hand-filling design, rendered in walnut, these featured cut checkering over their entire surface save for a nicely executed narrow border which frames the broad expanse of checkering work. A silver "Rampant Colt" medallion highlighted these stocks which were also offered as an extra cost option on the other various Colt E-Frame Models. A variation of these stocks with medallions done in gold became standard equipment and unique to the Python upon its introduction. Colt used these stocks with the same dimensions for many years, right up until the discontinuance of the Python. The fully checkered version was gone after 1960 though, the checkering being greatly reduced after that time.

    Modern collectors of classic Colt double-action revolvers from the 1950s go nuts for the early Colt target stocks. Decent examples of these stocks with full checkering coverage bring good money. The stocks weren't produced in large quantities and surviving examples are uncommonly found. Quantities of the stocks have been mislaid or discarded over the years. The revolver ruled bulls-eye competition during the era and many competitors exchanged the factory stocks for custom aftermarket designs more to their liking. Colt revolvers featuring these stocks found their way into law enforcement service from the 1950s onward and more stocks were discarded in favor of other designs. Since the total number of Pythons produced in the 1950s was small, these stocks with gold medallions are extremely scarce. Anyone wanting to restore an early Python has a hard time finding needed stocks so the early Colt stocks with silver medallions are sometimes sacrificed and modified by substituting gold medallions for the silver. There's a lot of collecting pressure on 1950s Colt target stocks.

    Continued
     
    Waltesefalcon and voere like this.
  3. noelekal

    noelekal Jan 28, 2018

    Posts
    2,769
    Likes
    14,547
    Speaking of the Python, it was that pesky "snake" gun that put the bite on the 3 5 7 model, curtailing demand and ultimately killing off Colt's first post-war .357 Magnum revolver in 1961. The introduction of the Python in 1955, after the 3 5 7 had been on the market for just 2 years, represents a curious marketing decision on the part of Colt. The factory built a premium revolver only to top it in short order, effectively making it redundant. And redundant the 3 5 7 immediately became, elbowing its way between the Trooper and the Python. The Duo-Tone finish was gone and the 3 5 7 looked very much like the Trooper but for different markings on the barrel. This apparently wasn't lost on the Colt buyers market either. Most purchased the lower priced Trooper with a few springing for the luxurious Python. In 1960 the Trooper was chambered for the .357 Magnum cartridge and also housed on the I-Frame. The 3 5 7 soldiered on for a few years in the shadow of the Python but there really was no place for it in the Colt line-up.

    Smith & Wesson didn't help the 3 5 7's cause either. During the decade of the 1950s, Smith & Wesson began to increase production of .357 Magnum revolvers. The Springfield Massachusetts firm added some new models to its catalog, supplementing its own premium .357 Magnum model which became the Model 27. One was another N-Frame offering a bit less glitz but was priced attractively. This revolver became the Model 28 when model numbers were assigned in 1958. A new concept in .357 Magnum revolvers was also introduced, the famous Combat Magnum, later known as the Model 19, which made its debut in the mid-1950s. Built on the popular K-Frame this represented a startling development in its day, putting the powerful .357 Magnum round into a smaller revolver. The concept was warmly welcomed by .357 Magnum fans everywhere.

    So, between Smith & Wesson's competition and Colt itself knocking the props out from under the 3 5 7 by bracketing it with other Colt .357 Magnum models, the very first post-war Colt .357 Magnum revolver disappeared after only an 8-year run.

    More's the pity too as the 3 5 7 gives up nothing to the Python except for high style. Mechanically the same, its action is just as smooth and it is capable of accuracy every bit as fine as the Python. I've had a Python for some years but being a contrarian, I think I prefer the 3 5 7.

    As highly polished as the Python is, neither the polish job nor the color of the blue finish is equal to the expert and detailed polishing work and the carbonia blue finish of the Colt handguns produced in the very early 20th century. The Python, at least by 1978 when mine was produced, seems almost over polished and has a slightly melted look. The 3 5 7 is very attractive with the two-tone finish and the sharp corners and edges. Of course early Pythons were also finished in the same fashion.

    The 3 5 7 lacks the characteristic full lug featured on the underside of the Python's barrel. An industry first, the full-lugged Python barrel predated by 25 years Smith & Wesson's appropriation of the concept for their L-Frame. Said to be an aid in steadying the sights and acting to dampen recoil, the full lug has proven wildly popular over the years. I don't prefer it however, either for its appearance or for the fact that it lends an ungainly front-heavy feel to the revolver. The effect is worse on revolvers with 6-inch barrels than those with 4-inch barrels. To me, the revolver without a barrel lug is the better balanced revolver.

    The Python introduced the handgun shooting world to the vent rib as a production feature. Prior to the Python's 1955 appearance, various solid and vent ribs were a custom accessory item added to both Colt and Smith & Wesson revolvers intended for bulls-eye competition. The Python offered the buyer a premium revolver with a factory fabricated vent rib as standard equipment. I don't much care for the vent rib which contributes to somewhat "over-the-top" styling. The vent rib affects me in much the same way as do tail fins that crowned the wretched excess that was the late 1950s automobile styling. The solid rib of the Smith & Wesson Model 27 is more tasteful. The Colt 3 5 7 manages understated elegance with no rib at all.

    One person's personal opinion obviously runs contrary to popular tastes as the Python became iconic, spawning imitators among the competition while the 3 5 7 languished. Perhaps the 3 5 7's popularity suffered from the oddly unimaginative name given the model, simply taken from the popular cartridge for which it chambered. Sales speak volumes and the Python was sold in the hundreds of thousands of revolvers while the 3 5 7 was all done after only about 15,000 produced.
     
    Waltesefalcon, voere and McKinley like this.
  4. noelekal

    noelekal Jan 28, 2018

    Posts
    2,769
    Likes
    14,547
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The 6-inch 3 5 7 model from 1953 shown with a 6-inch Python from 1978.
    [​IMG]

    With side plates removed. Part for part, the same.
    [​IMG]

    For that matter, the I-Frame 3 5 7 and Python are very little different than any of several other Colt revolvers built on the E-Frame since 1907. Top to bottom: Amy Special in .38 Special from 1915, Army Special in .41 Long Colt from 1925, Commando of World War II fame in .38 Special, Official Police in .38 Special from 1953, and a Officer's Model Match in .38 Special from 1957.
    [​IMG]

    The E-Frame Colts all buttoned up.
    [​IMG]

    Hate to say it but the Python really doesn't have anything over several of these older Colts with regards to smoothness of action or trigger quality. The best two are the 1925 Army Special and the 1957 Officer's Model Match. Next comes the 3 5 7 and the worn but fine NYPD Official Police. Then comes the Python.

    The Python seen here in the photos is a good garden-variety factory revolver having as good an action as any of several other Pythons that I've seen through the years. Without a "trigger job" though, I'm not really certain at all that the Python is as uniquely fine as it's reputed to be.

    Stock detail on the 3 5 7. The 1950s target stocks with the full-coverage checkering were phased out by 1961.
    [​IMG]


    Features unique to this first-year-of-production 3 5 7

    The Duo-Tone finish, seen in the cylinder flutes here. Colt discontinued the Duo-Tone finish for all revolvers the next year so only first-year 3 5 7s received the treatment.
    [​IMG]


    The Accro-Sight base, rounded at the front. Only appears on first-year 3 5 7 revolvers. All succeeding years feature a sight base that is squared off in the front. This revolver's serial number is 2851.
    [​IMG]


    First-year 3 5 7 revolvers uniquely sported a polished muzzle.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. noelekal

    noelekal Jan 28, 2018

    Posts
    2,769
    Likes
    14,547
    The obligatory targets. Shooter's choice, as always. Mind you, these were the best. Maybe I should put up some worst so as to keep a better sense of perspective. You know, those shots that go "off towards Jones's'."

    We'll get the worst out of the way first. I just cannot shoot Colt guns very well double-action without a lot of care. This was a best effort for the day at 10 yards, rolling off the shots rapidly. The Colt stacking trigger just eats my lunch. Some needed practice is indicated perhaps?
    [​IMG]

    On to single-action shooting which was much more pleasing

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Hate to have to say it but the Python won the day, shooting the tightest group.
    [​IMG]

    Or, maybe not. This was more typical.
    [​IMG]

    The 3 5 7 offers really good handgun accuracy with full-power .357 Magnum ammunition. I only loaded batches of jacketed and cast bullets over 14.0 grains of 2400 to try in it. I've run 2400 up to over 15.0 grains with bullets of this weight but determined that 14.0 grains was high enough without resorting to working up loads especially for the revolver. It handled them with aplomb.

    The first outing with the 3 5 7 was with other shooters at the local gun club range. Some impromptu targets were set up and shot at distances to 70 yards or so with gratifying results. One one occasion while in front of these shooters I essayed a shot at a stick of fire wood or mesquite tree trimming that was lying about 30 yards from the firing line, the 2-inch diameter sawn end presented to the line. A lucky shot centered this target, sending the stick spinning in a shower of splinters. The shot was lucky as it was the very first shot I ever fired from the gun with no idea how it was sighted. I could have just flinched in the appropriate direction but the results looked impressive and made for a gratifying beginning.

    Only when I headed out to our old family place in the country for a "grand day out" did I get to wring out the revolver more thoroughly. I shot too much that afternoon, also inaugurating a Smith & Wesson Heavy Duty that day, and shooting other handguns and rifles. I believe that I'm getting old or something when I begin to flag while shooting large quantities of ammunition off in one outing. I need to shoot more or take some Geritol or something.
     
    McKinley and Mtek like this.
  6. Mtek

    Mtek Jan 28, 2018

    Posts
    1,114
    Likes
    6,743
    Noelekal, I’m interested in your info and will read through when I have time. I don’t know anything about the history and it’s very interesting. Really nice pics too, thanks.

    On a side note, the action of mine is unbelievable smooth. I can trigger cock it if I want. It really is amazing.
     
    noelekal likes this.
  7. strick9

    strick9 Jan 28, 2018

    Posts
    1,119
    Likes
    9,220
    This is my BushMaster 5.56 and a picture of her and her and her older cousin AK 47
     
    DSC_0973bushmaster.jpg DSC_0975ar$ak.jpg
    voere, Mtek and noelekal like this.
  8. Siipiveikko

    Siipiveikko Jan 28, 2018

    Posts
    11
    Likes
    20
    Edited Jan 28, 2018
    voere, strick9 and noelekal like this.
  9. noelekal

    noelekal Jan 28, 2018

    Posts
    2,769
    Likes
    14,547
    Oh yeahMtek. The Python action is gratifyingly smooth. Oh, face it. All the old classic Colt models are smooth! Love the era in which they were made. Admire the craftsmen who produced them. We won't be seeing their kind again.

    Hi Sipivekko;

    Your Westinghouse produced Mosin Nagant is very interesting to me. Wish it could talk and tell us all its history. I'm envious of you and my brother-in-law. You both have Mosin Nagant rifles made by Westinghouse.
     
    Siipiveikko likes this.
  10. strick9

    strick9 Jan 28, 2018

    Posts
    1,119
    Likes
    9,220
    That is a beautiful Python
     
    Mtek likes this.
  11. strick9

    strick9 Jan 28, 2018

    Posts
    1,119
    Likes
    9,220
    is it still 7x54R or 30.06?/ Simo never used a scope it put his head up to high the fins had been captured and had finish barrels on them and that Westinghouse had American barrels, Russians never received them or the Remingtons they far better than the Russian built the revolution kept them from being shipped.mines a ww2 and took work to make semi accurate
     
    Edited Jan 28, 2018
    voere likes this.
  12. Professor

    Professor Jan 29, 2018

    Posts
    1,261
    Likes
    1,064
    Care should be taken with any Mosin Nagant rechambered to .30-06.
    Some were converted properly as fully functional rifles but a few were made up as shortened cadet rifles intended only for use with Blank cartridges. These usually have no front sight. You can occasionally spot one of the latter used as motion picture props in TV shows of the 50's and 60's.

    Many of the American manufactured Mosin Nagant rifles of WW1 were bought up by the U S Army for use as training rifles and designated as the Rifle Model of 1916.
     
    strick9 and voere like this.
  13. MikiJ

    MikiJ Likes songs about Purple spices Jan 29, 2018

    Posts
    2,389
    Likes
    1,965
    Back in the day I had quite a few hand-guns. My favorite revolver was a 4" Colt Silver Snake.
    However my most accurate was a Springfield Armory Trophy Match .45 :)
     
  14. voere

    voere pawn brokers are all about $$$ Jan 29, 2018

    Posts
    1,221
    Likes
    8,241
    I have a couple pythons sleeping in my safe. Colt made some awesome revolvers.
     
    Mtek and MikiJ like this.
  15. strick9

    strick9 Jan 29, 2018

    Posts
    1,119
    Likes
    9,220
    Yes use the 30.06 ammo they sell for the M1 Garand or hand load those things were converted same time as the Russian revolution
     
  16. Professor

    Professor Jan 29, 2018

    Posts
    1,261
    Likes
    1,064
    The very old .38 Colt target pistol I once owned had a adjustable front sight but no adjustable rear sight. The front sight was adjustable for elevation only by means of a small screw that tilted the blade up or down.
    The frame had a Ordnance inspector Cartouche GHD which I found out later was the initials of a well known and respected inspector of small arms.
    I suspect the gun had been a rebarreled military issue revolver. It was about the size of a Trooper and the barrel was marked "Officers Model Target".

    The action was smooth as any python, likely worked on by a skilled pistol smith and accuracy was phenomenal.
     
    voere likes this.
  17. voere

    voere pawn brokers are all about $$$ Jan 30, 2018

    Posts
    1,221
    Likes
    8,241
    Most of the 30.06 military surplus ammo is very corrosive. Not a big deal if you clean the rifle after shooting. Just one more thing to do. Years ago I shot up a lot of that surplus ammo. It was cheaper to purchase the surplus ammo than to roll your own ammo.
     
  18. Waltesefalcon

    Waltesefalcon Jan 30, 2018

    Posts
    1,199
    Likes
    2,746
    Noelekal, that is a great write up on the 3 5 7 you did.
     
  19. scv55

    scv55 Jan 31, 2018

    Posts
    200
    Likes
    1,018
    Ive been around guns my whole life. My father grew up hunting with his father, so naturally he did the same with my brother and me.

    This first rifle, incidentally my first firearm, is a Browning Auto .22cal from 1964. Its a Belgian made model with high grade walnut. Its a beautiful little gun, and its seen some action (squirrels). The magazine is located in the stock, and I believe it holds 8 rounds.

    Second I have a very basic, traditional Winchester model 94 in 3030. Good shooting gun, and I don't think twice about it getting scratched. I used this on my first wild boar hunt, which was a success.

    Next and last in my collection is what most would call "home defense." I always wanted a handgun, so I did a bunch of research and bought a Sig Sauer P226 in 9mm. Phenominal shooting gun, and very very well made. Absolutely love putting rounds through it at the range.

    P.S. I also have a 12 gauge shotgun, but I just cant find a good picture of it.
     
    IMG_2017.jpg IMG_1148.jpg IMG_1146.jpg IMG_6903.jpg IMG_3786.jpg
  20. strick9

    strick9 Jan 31, 2018

    Posts
    1,119
    Likes
    9,220
    Federal makes a modern ammo for 30.06 m1 Garand it's for older guns
     
    propervinyl likes this.