I agree about old Colts feeling right. The detective special is the perfect size for a snub nose bigger than a J frame and smaller than a K frame perfect in size for me.

 

I'm not a huge fan of shooting shotguns anymore because my shoulder can't take it anymore. Severe arthritis from 1000s of rounds of 12ga in my younger years in Trap, Skeet and Sporting Clays. I'll bet I reloaded 50,000 12ga myself in addition to factory bought. I had a shed specifically made up for reloading shotshells. One room for the hulls and components, the other for the progressive press and staging the work. Wish I had pictures to share but this was before digital cameras and easy picture taking(film era, yikes I feel old).

Anyway, I like collecting shotguns now even though I don't shoot them. This one I found a little while ago and its a dandy. One of the last handcrafted American arms, perhaps the last, from the 70s. Winchester Super X-1. Winchester spent 5yrs and $20M bucks developing this, and lost money on every one....it was the equiv of $3000 today to buy, and supposedly $5000 to build.

But they are beauties....and smooth as silk. Considered the best autoloader ever made.

 

So I've dug out a couple older birds from the archives this morning. I'll admit I have a love/hate relationship with revolvers. I have a deep love and appreciation for the mechanics and precision of a finely tuned machine. I've worked around manufacturing equipment for 40yrs now and love the whir and hum of well running mechanical devices. On the flip side, I hate cleaning revolvers after shooting, so many nooks and crannies to get to!

I'm not sure when these came around the Wryfox household but I was happy to come across them again.

1st: Colt Officer's Model 38, 1st Issue, made in 1906. The dawn of the 38 Special(designed 1898, smokeless version in 1899) was all the rage particularly after the failure of the 38 Long Colt used in the Philippine Insurrection just a couple years before. Designed to be a more powerful 38 caliber, It was also the dawn of early organized pistol matches, so this is the first purpose made production revolver for such contests, as well as (hopefully) police use, which did follow after several modifications to suit such use in subsequent issues(all the way up to 1969). As you can see, it has a flat top and adjustable sights front and rear, a novel invention for the time. Sexy, eh?


2nd: Colt 1917 Army Issue, made in 1918 according to govt records. Chambered in 45ACP vs 45 Long Colt, because the new 1911 was designed for 45ACP so logistics made it simple for both. What's cool about this one is that after WWI many went to Springfield Armory depot for refurbishment in 1920. The classic signs of this effort are the dark grey/black Parkerizing (as opposed to the common green park used on rifles), and the 5 digit number stamped inside the crane underneath Colt's original serial #. These were used extensively for decades so its possible that it was refurbished again at a later date but there is no evidence of later depot inspector marks whatsoever, so it seems unlikely. A number were sold to civilians as surplus in the 1920s so I think this it what this example is. What's especially neato is that the bolt face and cylinder have no marks or wear whatsoever, indicating this may not been fired since it came out of the depot 100yrs ago.

 

Very interesting. I especially love the government property stamp. A really neat example, sir!

 

I'm in love with that pair Wryfox. My first issue OM is two years newer than yours, the last year they were made on the old DA frame before going to the Army Special frame in 1909. My 1917 was a basket case my dad got in an ammo can years ago and needed a new cylinder and timing hand (it'd been bored to accept shot shells) and it's only been in the last few years that I got it up and operational.

 

What type of shot shell?
There was a .45 shot shell made for use in the Thompson SMG. It had a longer case and required a special magazine.
It was meant for police riot use.
They also made a few Thompson Squad Auto style weapons that used the same magazine as the shot shell versions to feed a ball cartridge with a longer case than the standard .45 ACP.

 

I'm not sure. I was just a little tyke when my dad got it in a trade. He messed with it some, could never find a proper cylinder for it and put it away.

I went to look for the old bored over cylinder and it wasn't where I thought I'd put it. I'll try to find it over the weekend and I'll measure the chambers.

 

Oh man!

Colts!

Omega Forums is a better gun forum than the gun forums. Most inspiring.

These are all probably rerun photos that have been posted earlier, but here are some more classic Colts. I'm enthused about them and love to shoot them.

I really enjoy shooting target grade guns. These Colt Officers Model Match revolvers, one in .22 Long Rifle (from 1953) and one in .38 Special (from 1957 - same as me) are a treat to take to the range. They give up nothing to the Python either and look better too. Did I really say that?!!! Those 1950s fully checkered walnut grips are feast for the eyes.


The vaunted Colt Python, this blued 6-inch is from 1978. Nice, but not the favorite around here. Don't really care for the vent rib, full under-lug barrel, or the polish job Colt rendered which is over the top and a little too melt-y looking in my opinion.


The premium Colt .357 Magnum predecessor to the Python, the 3 5 7. This one's from early 1954. Was intended to be the deluxe .357 Magnum in the Colt line up when it was introduced in 1953, yet Colt dethroned it a scant two years later with the Python which replaced it as top dog. Internals are the same, trigger's just as nice, and the 3 5 7 is just as accurate. I think the 3 5 7 is the better looking revolver of the two premium Colt .357s. Much scarcer too, yet brings far from Python money in the current market.


Colt New Service revolvers in any of their guises are my very favorite Colt revolvers of all times. Here is a uncommonly seen U. S. contract Model 1909 New Service in .45 Colt. Colt provided a few of these over just a couple of years time as a sort of stop gap to shore up effective revolver needs in the Philippines before the Model 1911 .45 automatic was introduced. Production of this variant wasn't all that high. One rarely sees a Model 1909 sporting any measure of original finish. 350 of these pistols were shipped to Springfield Armory and the remainder (19153 pistols) were shipped to the Manila Ordnance Depot in the Philippine Islands where their dazzling blue finishes promptly turned brown in the humid field conditions.


It's easy to tell it was a partly cloudy afternoon when these photographs were taken.










This poor ol' cannon is a Colt New Service Model 1917 in .45 ACP. I've owned this one for 40 years and have fired more rounds through it than any other Colt revolver I have. Have toted it afield on many hikes. Still a very useful handgun.

 

I remember seeing line drawings of a Colt New Service in .357 IIRC made for the USMC as a target pistol. It was among other rare New Service pistol depicted in an American Rifleman article back in the 60's.
No real details were presented but I got the impression there was no upgrade to the frames required for handling the .357 Magnum.
I also remember adverts for barrels and cylinders to convert the New Service to .357. The barrel used was very different from the military barrels.

I'm sure no one with a good New Service in its original chambering would be interested in such a conversion, but if one of these kits could be found it might breath new life into a otherwise relic condition piece.

PS
Just checked Numrich Arms and a few Cylinders and barrels for .357 conversions are available.
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/colt/revolvers-colt/1917-2

 

Noelekal bringing out the big guns! Hooleee cow!

If you remember the old Wayne's World movie...."I'm not worthy!"

That Colt 3 5 7 is AMAZING

That 1909 Colt is AMAZING

Bonafide museum quality pieces...

I read that the Colt 1909 was used to transition to the 1917, with unshouldered cylinders from that production used for the early 1917s, necessitating the use of moon clips to hold the 45ACP, otherwise they slip right through the cylinder. Those early 1917s were anecdotally incapable of hitting the broad side of a barn because of the fat chambers, but then the new cylinders using shoulders were introduced and no longer needed moon clips, and provided for better accuracy. The S&W 1917, being newly designed, had shoulders to start with so no need for moon clips. It is also anecdotally told that the early unshouldered Colt 1917s could shoot either 45LC or 45 ACP.

I know this sounds like it's in the weeds, but Noelekal will get it...

 

I can say with certainty this was the single best change Colt ever made in their revolvers and persists 110 yrs later it was so successful.

The entire mechanism changed, the most obvious to users being the rotation of the cylinder from counterclockwise to clockwise. The fundamental difference of S&W vs Colt revolvers to this day.

 

You could probably fire the .45 LC, if the firing pin made good contact, but you'd get blown primers now and then due to excessive headspace. Depending on the primer geometry and hardness.
The .45 Auto Rim cartridge was developed to allow firing without half moon clips. It had a thick enough rim to make up for the longer headspace of the faced off cylinder.

 

Yeah that's why I said anecdotally, because they used the 1909 cylinders. The 45 ACP sits quite proud in this revolver, in order to accept the moon clips. The thick rim of the 45colt should be fine. But only a few of the 1917s were this configuration, and all the early no shoulder cylinders were replaced at depots when processed, so very very few survive.

 

I do get it Wryfox except for the part about early Colt M1917s being able to accept .45 Colt ammunition.

I'm aware that the early '17 Colts had bored through cylinders with no shoulders, but hadn't heard that .45 Colt would chamber in those. If so then they'd probably shoot just fine. Might be crowding things a bit in the shorter cylinder. In our old house I have to go through our bedroom to get to the gun room. If it wasn't 4:30 in the morning and with Mrs. noelekal asleep I'd go measure the cylinder and a factory 255 grain .45 Colt cartridge to see if bullet would protrude out the front of the cylinder a bit. Of course the .45 Colt won't chamber in my '17 Colt revolver as it is a later production revolver (September 1918) so has chambers with shoulders.

I heartily agree with you Wryfox on the Colt lock work design improvements introduced to their various sized models in the 1907-1908 time period. Made Colt double-action revolvers advance from being old wheezers with delicate mechanisms and crummy triggers to real thoroughbred ponies with dependable function and nice usable triggers. I'd trust my early decades 20th century Colts to go the distance even now same as I would a new one.


More classic Colt-ness. Oh no! I feel a tale coming on!

It's been near two years ago, but a huntin'/shootin' cousin of mine came for a visit and brought my uncle's Colt Model 1873 which is a military contract variant of the Colt Single Action Army and chambered for .45 Colt. My uncle and my dad went on a fishing trip up to Oklahoma in 1948 and while there stopped in at a little road side grocery and bait house where my uncle bought the Colt M1873 and a holster for $5. Of course $5 was more money in 1948 than it is now and obsolete revolvers weren't yet collectible.

My uncle's Colt Single Action is known in collector's parlance as the Artillery Model. Its serial number dates it to 1878. Colt Model 1873s were provided to the U. S. military with 7 1/2-inch barrels which this one would have originally had, however in the years after the Spanish American War when the U. S. had taken over the Philippines from the Spanish, quantities of the Model 1873 were trotted out of military stores where they'd been held after they had been withdrawn after general issue of the newer military contract version of the Colt double-action New Army .38 Long Colt which served in the Spanish American War. Apparently the .38 revolver's reputation for effectiveness wasn't sullied during that conflict. Perhaps the revolvers weren't employed to any great extent and perhaps on occasion when used enemy combatants had the good grace to realize they'd been shot and didn't further press the issue.

Was a different story in the Philippines. The .38 Long Colt proved woefully inadequate for the adversaries the U. S. Army found there, some of which employed stimulating drugs and body wraps to render themselves more impervious to injuries received. These Moro tribesmen were known as the Jurementados and they meant business! Alarmed, the War Department brought back the Model 1873 Colt and its notably more effective .45 Colt cartridge.



To make the single action .45s handier for field use a great many of the M1873s supplied had their barrels shortened to 5 1/2-inches during arsenal reworks. My uncle's revolver is one of those. I don't think there was any particular association with artillery connected to the revolvers. Apparently collectors simply fixed that moniker to them. The shortened Model 1873s were just general issue and used along side an additional small procurement of Colt Model 1878 revolvers also chambered for .45 Colt known as the Colt Model 1902 as well as the later Colt Model 1909.

It was summer of 1968 when I shot a handgun for the first time. I can't now recall if it was my uncle's 4-inch Smith & Wesson Model 15 .38 Special or the Colt Model 1873 for I shot both at tin cans while standing in the road leading to our old family lake cabin at different times that summer. I recall that I "kinda" could hit with the Smith & Wesson, but the Colt (probably loaded with stiff Unique fueled handloads) was a bit much for an 11 year old.

In 1971 my uncle was struck and killed by lightening while on a fishing trip. His extensive gun collection fell into the hands of his four sons, my cousins and they still retain most of them.

I'd not seen the Colt Artillery Model in over three decades when my cousin came wagging it in the house stuffed in the same ol' holster it lived in while inside my uncle's gun closet when I was a kid. While he was in that weekend we repaired to the local gun club range for a "Span-Am" revolver shoot. My uncle's old Colt, a Colt Model 1901 .38 I have and the Colt Model 1909 were all aired out.

Top to bottom: Colt Model 1873 Artillery Model, Colt Model 1901rework of Model 1892, and Colt Model 1909 New Service all grimy from shooting on a March afternoon.


Good work could be done on target with both the Model 1873 Artillery Model and the Model 1909. The Model 1901? Not so much. Accuracy displayed would show that revolver as useful for close range work. The Model 1901 I have is a rebuild of a Model 1892 and was produced in that year. Colt won a contract to rehab and upgrade the earlier variants of the .38 Army revolvers. This included adding a butt swivel to any not having that feature and the Model 1892s did not have it. In the rehab Colt removed the original 1892 roll markings on the butt and reapplied the same serial number with Model 1901 designation. My .38 Colt is an early Model 1892 having a serial number of 1207. Because of the rework it is considered to be a Model 1901 and was so marked in that year.

Regarding the Holster

I recall that the old .45 Colt was kept with a holster when I was a kid. Didn't know a thing about holsters though. While we were sitting in the living room discussing the old Colt my cousin suddenly interjected that he was giving me the holster. Turned out to be an original and quite collectible vintage Brill holster. I now collect vintage leather holsters so immediately recognized it for what it was. I protested that it needed to remain with the revolver since they'd been together for at least 70 years at that point, but he said no, the holster was made for a 4 3/4 inch Colt Single Action Army revolver and I had one of those and the 5 1/2-inch Artillery Model didn't really fit it.





So, my 1905 vintage commercial Colt Single Action Army in .38-40 now has a home in the old holster which was my uncle's since that 1948 fishing trip. I'm very grateful to my cousin.

Shown here with another later, yet still pre-war Brill holster I'd previously picked up.


My .38 Colt Model 1901 really is an ol' wheezer. Mine's in pretty good mechanical shape. Its lines appear quite modern and it balances so elegantly and gracefully in the hand when shooting one-handed as was typical of its day, but it's of primitive design. The main spring feels like it was made from a segment of my dad's old overload springs on the '54 GMC pickup that he had when I was a kid. In single-action mode the revolver's trigger is heavy and harsh. In double-action mode the trigger becomes truly dismal, heavy, uneven and stacking, feeling much like dragging a Haydite block across a caliche road with one finger. Because of trigger characteristics the double-action trigger is almost unusable. But wait! There's more! The timing and lock up are both of such a weak design that the cylinder poorly aligns with the barrel's forcing cone. So a double-action effort with the revolver finds an evil lead-spitting beast from bullets shaving lead as they try to find the forcing cone. I've examined a number of these U. S. military Colt .38s over the years as well as the Colt commercial variants and have yet to find one that locked up tightly. The design was not durable which is the reason why I so wholeheartedly agree with Wryfox about the improved Colt models of subsequent years.

 

Hmmm ... never considered that. Never read it in any reference encountered either. Perhaps Colt initially did use left over cylinder components they had from the Model 1909 production which concluded in 1911, six years before the initial production of the 1917. Colt was very much "waste not, want not" about their inventory of parts in their assembly bins.

It's also possible that Colt simply rerouted component cylinders intended for commercial .45 Colt chambered New Service revolvers which was a regular production item. Whether they were 1909 cylinders or commercial .45 Colt cylinders they would have had to have been shortened for use in the Model 1917 New Service contract pistol for the cylinder is shorter in the Model 1917 than the cylinder is in the Model 1909 or other commercial New Service .45 Colt.

Which brings up another possibility I'd not considered before now. Perhaps Colt utilized cylinders that had been produced for the British contract .455 New Service revolvers. Colt had chambered the New Service for .455 from the model's introduction, with batches of commercial .455 New Service revolvers being sold to English and Dominion markets. Early in World War I England placed orders with Colt for additional .455s to supplement the issue Webley revolvers and quite a few were produced for them. The .455 cylinder is the same length as the Model 1917 cylinder. I know nothing about machining sequences of New Service cylinders during manufacture, but perhaps short .455 cylinder blanks in inventory weren't finished out in any particular caliber so could have been utilized for initial Model 1917 .45 ACP production and were finish chambered using the straight bored method.

I've observed the occasional Colt Model 1917 with chambers bored straight through.

Idle speculation, this.

The headspace issue raises a good point. Hah! One could fire at high angle with one's revolver to better achieve some discharges, as in a sort of early antiaircraft effort against dirigibles and aeroplanes. I think that's the reason Colt was required to modify the Model 1917 cylinder to feature the shoulders in chambers. Smith & Wesson Model 1917s all had shoulders in chambers which provided headspace for the .45 ACP and could dependably fire .45 ACP ammunition, even without the clips. The only issue being subsequent ejection of empty cartridge cases which would have required something to prod them out individually because the revolver's ejector star could not obtain purchase on the rimless .45 ACP cartridge. I have fired .45 ACP ammunition in Model 1917 revolvers without benefit of moon clips in this manner.

And here's a photo of the Colt Model 1917 with it's ol' Army bud a Smith & Wesson Model 1917. Some .45 Auto Rim cartridges also shown among the .45 ACP and half moon clips for illustration.


Ok, I've carried on about the wonders of Colt revolvers, but I actually prefer Smith & Wesson revolvers and their design above all other revolvers. OOOooo... did I actually say that too?!!!

I can't develop a whole lot of interest in current firearms catalogs just as I can't about current watch catalogs, but I'm enthused about the vintage stuff.

 

Great stories, Noelekal. Always a treat to read! You have quite a flair for it.

Re the old Colt DAs..ie 1880s to 1900s, I also never met one that wasn't sloppy. I actually took a look at this with the new Officers Model I posted above. I thought, dang, there is always play in these, what's the deal? You've got this two bolt complexity there, one bolt holds the "resting" position(i'll call it), the second is for indexing and holding in firing position. The fact is, the hand holds tight the cylinder on one side, the bolt the other side, with the hand only taking up the remaining slack when the trigger is pulled fully back to fire. Heck of a last second adjustment just before the boom. I suspect what you described re the 'spittin lead' situation in DA mode is the cylinder not settling into place quick enough as the trigger finishes its pull and hammer falls. I have experienced this as well which is why I never fire this design in DA mode. Its very similar to the operation of the S&W #3, just in double action. I've also learned that if that bolt is worn, the speed of the DA movement can cause the bolt to slip from the cylinder groove and the cylinder overtravels. No personal experience, but I imagine that's no fun if you catch the primer with the cylinder out of index.

BTW, hell of a thing to die by lightning strike. I've read accounts of survivors and they say they felt it coming, a mysterious energy in the air a few seconds beforehand. I have felt similar on a golf course down here in Florida(lightning capital of USA), so much so I ducked down to the ground....then it started to subside, but a moment later struck about 50yds away(hit a tree)...astonishingly loud, headsplitting loud. And then the smell of ozone and pine. Learned quickly living here that lightning that strikes ground happens mostly at the edge of storms where its NOT raining. It can sneek up on YOU as you look at the dark clouds in the distance. My condolences for your uncle.

 

Well I'm not suggesting anyone do this but I'm wondering if the 1917 cylinder is long enough that one could rechamber it for the longer Thompson carbine cartridge. They made these as semi auto hunting rifles with IIRC 14 inch barrels. Not the modern replicas.
Just speculating if a Thompson carbine owner might wish to carry the same ammo for pistol and rifle. The above is the 1923 squad auto version in .45 ACP.
They also made a few chambered in .45 Remington-Thompson. Those used stick magazines.

It just occured to me that the older shoulderless chambers might chamber the .45 Remington-Thompson on half moon clips as is.
Depending on how fast the powder was such a match up would make for a very powerful handgun.
In the carbine length barrel the Remington-Thompson gave 1400+Fps.

 

I just measured the length of each of my New Services cylinders; the .357 cylinder has a length of 1.617", the .45 Colt cylinder has a length of 1.624", and the M1917 cylinder has a length of 1.594".

 

Since I had the New Services out and since Noelekal threw down the Colt gauntlet I figured I should post a few photos.

First are my three New Service framed revolvers, from left to right my 1914 New Service in .45 Colt, my 1919 M1917 in .45acp, and my 1917 New Service in .357. I'm not sure when the conversion was done on the .357 but it was someone's target pistol, it has a trigger that breaks like glass at 3 lbs 4 oz and produces groups at 25 yds you can cover with a quarter. I got it for a song because the grip frame had been cut down to an E frame size, I put the pachmayrs on it to bring the grip size back up.

The next photo are my Pythons, the 4" is from 77 and the 6" is from 76. They are probably the finest post war American revolvers ever made.

The third photo are my Army Special (and New Army & Navy) framed guns. From left to right we have my 1908 1st issue Officer's Model, my 1937 3rd issue Officer's Model with a heavy barrel, and my 1913 Army Special. The 3rd issue Officer's Model is possibly my best shooting handgun. The thing is just a marvelous revolver and represents the absolute pinnacle of gun making. From the hand checkering of the back strap, trigger, hammer, cylinder release, and ejector; to the elegantly rounded edges of the frame and the matte finish of the top strap that contrasts so nicely with the deep polished blue of the rest of the gun; to the silky smooth action, this gun has it all.

The last photo is of my small framed Colts, my 1967 Detective Special in .38 spl and my 1910 Police Positive in .32 S&W long. The DS is my EDC and I typically carry it in an old Bucheimer paddle holster.

 

YUP