Back on the market?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Seiko-6139...-/194151332810?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

 

I wanted to include this watch as a public service. It is currently on Ebay and the listing says pretty much all parts are new. I asked the seller specifically if the dial was a repro, and he said it was, which makes it the first of its kind known to me. The "true Pogue" dials were not reprod for a long time, and that made it easier to trust what you were getting, but now if they are being made new, a true Pogue could be cobbled together with parts from correct cases, movements, etc. If any of you see any obvious tells, please point them out. The most obvious for now is that it is too clean and perfect to my eye. Unfortunately, all the other markings look very good, and I doubt anyone is refinishing dials with this type of dial.

 

They are pretty GD good. Very frustrating.

There is still a tell. Not going to say it out loud. Hopefully they never figure out how to fix it.

 

I know this is an "Old" thread, I have bought and sold many Seiko 6139 600* watches and I can confirm that the price of a "True Pogue" is now in the $3000 range for a "good" one, I have sold around 10 of these "True Pogues" the first I sold was 2019 for £1250 an an ebay no reserve auction, the last was (I think) July 2021 it sold for £2850, but all have been in the £2000 plus area.

 

They come in threes. I noticed there is another thread telling of the Pogue bubble bursting. I'd never considered the connect between "you burst my bubble" and "I predict that Pogue bubble has burst." Both involve someone raining on the parade. If fakes and fake parts were the end of interest for buyers/collectors, how does that work with Rolex? The ultimate faked watch, yet prices soar upward, even when there are hundreds of real Daytonas, GMTs, Subs for sale, prices move up. Of course it's frustrating for some to have to be super careful when buying, but that sort of challenge used to be one of the things watch geeks liked. True Pogues and their cousins will continue to appreciate. I hope that doesn't burst anyone's bubbles.

 

Not often

 

I wish all watches had space connections.

 

After looking at this thread and scrutinizing some true Pogue dials, I have come up with one tell that is not obvious but should help those looking for a real dial vs the recent fakes. I have been told one can tell by the sub dial, but I haven't had luck with that. In the photo shown comparing the lower right part of dials, the "-6009T" marking has something we can use. The fake dial photo is taken from the Seikosis site. The original is on the right and repro on the left. Notice the location of the "T" in relation to the seconds indices. The original T trunk points down at the 22 seconds plus 1 mark (not sure how to term this) while the fake dial's T points down nearer the 22 seconds plus 2. It is clearly further to the left. I hope that isn't confusing. I could probably explain it better, but it is a clear difference, and I'll also post the same area from Pogue's actual watch which also has the T further to the right. There are other subtle differences in the thickness of black lines and the SEIKO applied logo, but it's a very good fake. I hope this helps. There are differences in the lum on the markers. The fakes seem to have a shiny surface. Other observations are welcome. With luck, we can restore confidence in distinguishing fake from orig. NOTE: I know some of you believe it's better to not disclose tells due to possible updates to the fakes, but I think it's unlikely the issue will be changed, and it's important to get the info out to the buyers.

 

I think one significant way to identify correct dials is to check the two digit code on the back and compare with the case serial number. Not an easy check but something that can be done during the service.
From https://vintagewatchadvisors.azurewebsites.net/2019/07/20/seiko-pogue-authentication-part-ii-dials/

 

Here's an ebay listing that shows another way to know the dial is original....if it's completely roached. There are a couple of others with damaged dials at auction now. I'd say 3k is the starting point now for nice, original examples.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3540627108...YU5VkXal6MhsUKhkFTDND5E4U=|tkp:Bk9SR8jnrrv8YAPurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

 

I'm still thinking it's fake. The subdial hash marks arectoo far from the edge of the subregister.

 

Like them Pogues!
No "true" Pogue though

 

but it’s in “excellent” condition…

 

I prefer the condition on mine over the dial that looks like somebody used it as an ashtray

 

Picture time, picture time, my favorite time!

 

i believe that eBay watch has an original dial fitted. But it sure looks crusty.

Applying some Rolex-speak, where cracks in the dial finish are called “spider dials”, I’d instead christen this one as a “cow patty” dial.



Here’s my example:

 

A few suspiciously good looking for the price Pogues on the bay' right now. Wondering what you all think. Lots of watches in worse condition selling for 1200-1300.

If i had to be picky I would say that the lume on the first watch looks a little too white for a watch of its age. The second watch has clearly seen some polishing and the bezel is in good but not perfect shape. If these are authentic Pogues they seem to represent incredible value but my mind is saying if something seems to good to be true it probably is.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2250480071...Eeoe8iWy4MmKkJ6BIZ2qUBMt4=|tkp:Bk9SR_icx4GBYQPurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2952320488...LcJeJnJ%2FrQ5A%3D%3D|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2047675Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

 

Second is definitely not an original Seiko dial. I'd need more pucs of the first to 100% say it's not real.

The first is the true Pogue made for American market (17 jewels). The second reference is not a true Pogue as it is for non-American market, even if the fial was original.

I agree with your opinion about the case seeing some polish

 

Amazing! This is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for posting here. Wondering if you expand a bit on the tells that let you know the second watch has an inauthentic dial. There is so much to know with these watches I would love to train my eyes a bit! Thanks!

 

Here's a great guide. Also read their guide on bezels.

https://www.vintagewatchadvisors.com/2019/07/20/seiko-pogue-authentication-part-ii-dials/

The sub register has a large gap between the hash marks and edge.

View attachment 1496633

Pogue's watch was the 6139-6005, not 6139-6002. Similar, except Pogue's had 17j because it was in the States. The 6005s also did not have the word "Chronograph " on the dial. This does not mean they are fake or not original Seiko. It's just a difference between to 6002 and 6005, if you are after the reference Pogue wore.

Edit: corrected Pogue's ref. No. Also, this li k discusses the recognition of differences between 6005 vs 6002: https://wristsushi.proboards.com/thread/15840/true-pogue-6139-6002-6005