Seiko True Pogue has the right stuff to BLAST off

pseikotick · Jan 29, 2020

I'm not new to Seiko, as I owned many when my pockets were young and shallow, but I am only recently enjoying the Seiko space connection: The "Pogue" 6139 6005 American market watch worn by Bill Pogue on Skylab 4. The exact variant he wore sported "water 70m resist" on the left side of the dial and only "SEIKO Automatic" beneath noon. Of course, the dial was gold. That variation seems to have been produced between Feb 1971 and Apr 1972 only and only sold in US markets. He bought his at a BX on a USAF installation.

Those not paying attention may not have noticed the prices during the last few years, but what used to be maybe 500 usd for a nice example just a few years ago can now bring 2500 for a similar watch. There is scarcity and high demand. I believe within a few short years similar condition "true Pogues" will match the prices of early 70s Speedmaster Pros. (4 to 7K currently, give or take) You might say this watch has the right stuff to blast off in value.

jsducote · Jan 29, 2020

Internets seem to think that the variant is 6002.

SpeedyPhill · Jan 30, 2020

It looks like Owen Garriott also flew a few Seiko wrist watches on Skylab but we'll have to check the manifests... I heard this when his son Richard Garriott took off to the ISS in 2008 as he also carried a pair of Seiko Spacewalker Spring Drive wrist watches that stayed on the ISS so Lonchakov could wear both watches over the Orlan spacesuit for his December 2008 spacewalk... he returned both watches to Richard Garriott who auctioned one for charity !

smitty190373 · Jan 30, 2020

jsducote
Internets seem to think that the variant is 6002.

True Pogue is 6139-6005, ideally 1971.

6005 was produced for the U.S.A, while 6002 was being made for the international market.

Gav1967 · Jan 30, 2020

pseikotick
I'm not new to Seiko, as I owned many when my pockets were young and shallow, but I am only recently enjoying the Seiko space connection: The "Pogue" 6139 6005 American market watch worn by Bill Pogue on Skylab 4. The exact variant he wore sported "water 70m resist" on the left side of the dial and only "SEIKO Automatic" beneath noon. Of course, the dial was gold. That variation seems to have been produced between Feb 1971 and Apr 1972 only and only sold in US markets. He bought his at a BX on a USAF installation.

Those not paying attention may not have noticed the prices during the last few years, but what used to be maybe 500 usd for a nice example just a few years ago can now bring 2500 for a similar watch. There is scarcity and high demand. I believe within a few short years similar condition "true Pogues" will match the prices of early 70s Speedmaster Pros. (4 to 7K currently, give or take) You might say this watch has the right stuff to take off in value.

You may be right in terms of value but only time will tell and could just be wishful thinking

I have a 1975 6002 without the Water resist dial as part of my weekly rotation and love wearing it. I still consider it a "Pogue" regardless of which precise model Bill Pogue wore

janice&fred · Jan 30, 2020

we have a few of them but I doubt your value predictions will work in the real world. the name "pogue" has been thrown around for so many years on the internet for anything with that case design regardless of dial color or configuration that the genuine examples' values are diluted.

I also can't imagine $2500 being a realistic price as I was just on manhattan yesterday and seen 2 of them in nice clean shape and both were under $700.

Walrus · Jan 30, 2020

Historical value aside they are a very nice looking watch

SpeedyPhill · Jan 30, 2020

Always difficult to say for one-off spaceflown wristwatch models (e.g. Yema used by French cosmonauts) 🙄

smitty190373 · Jan 30, 2020

janice&fred
I also can't imagine $2500 being a realistic price as I was just on manhattan yesterday and seen 2 of them in nice clean shape and both were under $700.

I very much doubt these were the 'True Pogues' that the O.P stated ?

There's a big difference between a Seiko 6139-600X and a 'True Pogue' 6139-6005. The 'True Pogue' has to have several things.

Automatic only Japan 6139-6009T dial, water 70m resist, and 17J with Suwa symbol above the subdial. The dials are also a lighter shade of yellow, and if you want to be anal it should be a 19xxx serial dating to Sept 1971, or very close.

At a guess I would say for every 300-400 6139-600X's you see sell, there maybe 1 True Pogue.

This is one.

asrnj77 · Feb 1, 2020

I wish I would have bid on the actual space flown Pogue that sold for $6000 in 2008

befobe · Feb 1, 2020

ssspeedy and sssseiko...

janice&fred · Feb 1, 2020

pseikotick
And Janice and Fred, you might want to pull out that mound of Pogues you have and check to see if any have the correct markings. I'll buy every one you have at 700 or less depending on condition.

we know what we have and we don't need to "pull them out" and check anything and report back in the hopes you follow thru with your offer. despite our penchant for watch-hunting and selling here and there, our Pogues, just like most of our long-standing collection of stuff are not for sale. if we were looking to cash-in we have other watches far more interesting than the Pogues. however we wouldn't think of using one from our collection as an icon and start threads on it attempting to create buzz and boost it's value, but to each their own.

Gav1967 · Feb 1, 2020

smitty190373
I very much doubt these were the 'True Pogues' that the O.P stated ?

There's a big difference between a Seiko 6139-600X and a 'True Pogue' 6139-6005. The 'True Pogue' has to have several things.

Automatic only Japan 6139-6009T dial, water 70m resist, and 17J with Suwa symbol above the subdial. The dials are also a lighter shade of yellow, and if you want to be anal it should be a 19xxx serial dating to Sept 1971, or very close.

At a guess I would say for every 300-400 6139-600X's you see sell, there maybe 1 True Pogue.

This is one.

Nice example although if you want to be really anal then Bill Pogue's watch had a different bracelet. More like a jubilee type

smitty190373 · Feb 1, 2020

Gav1967
Nice example although if you want to be really anal then Bill Pogue's watch had a different bracelet. More like a jubilee type

I agree, although that watch isn't mine unfortunately , it was added as an example of a 'true pogue' that the o.p is talking about. It's a watch owned by Seiko collector eriksstrikland on instagram.

Plenty of people confuse them with other 6139-600X references. I've never found one at a price I was willing to pay. I bid on one last year, but it went well over my 4 fig bid. If you're waiting to find one one with the exact same bracelet the wait may be a long one. Whenever a legit one comes to market there are usually several serious bidders involved. And If you want to be really anal there is only ONE 'true pogue' and that last sold 12 years ago 😉.

janice&fred
if we were looking to cash-in we have other watches far more interesting than the Pogues. however we wouldn't think of using one from our collection as an icon and start threads on it attempting to create buzz and boost it's value, but to each their own.

I don't really think a thread with a handful of replies will do much to boost prices over night, do you? As for the Pogue, it was interesting enough for you to comment on wasn't it.

janice&fred · Feb 1, 2020

smitty190373
As for the Pogue, it was interesting enough for you to comment on wasn't it.

yes it was as we have a few. however I am always suspicious when price and perceived rarity are the focal points of a thread on a watch an OP owns. Geography plays too large a role in watch values and one shouldn't assume everyone relies on the internet and network in that manner.

some dealer guy lists and sells stuff for incredible amounts on the internet? There are other dealers that couldn't care less about the internet-based market and base values on the actual markets available locally. On 47th st and the Chelsea weekend markets one can buy these same watches for a more realistic price. Same for brick and mortar antique shops and second hand shops. A hand full of dealers on the virtual reality of the net don't necessarily dictate the actual reality of watch hunting via boots on the ground. Pogues don't cost $2500 in my real world.

smitty190373 · Feb 1, 2020

janice&fred
yes it was as we have a few. however I am always suspicious when price and perceived rarity are the focal points of a thread on a watch an OP owns. Geography plays too large a role in watch values and one shouldn't assume everyone relies on the internet and network in that manner.

some dealer guy lists and sells stuff for incredible amounts on the internet? There are other dealers that couldn't care less about the internet-based market and base values on the actual markets available locally. On 47th st and the Chelsea weekend markets one can buy these same watches for a more realistic price. Same for brick and mortar antique shops and second hand shops. A hand full of dealers on the virtual reality of the net don't necessarily dictate the actual reality of watch hunting via boots on the ground. Pogues don't cost $2500 in my real world.

I'm a big fan of True Pogues, can you post some pics of the ones you own? Always interested to see them.

I can only speak of the ones i've seen, and they were both Ebay sales. I never said they were all $2500, but the few I have seen sell have exchanged hands for at least double the sub $700 you mentioned.

janice&fred · Feb 1, 2020

smitty190373
can you post some pics of the ones you own?

of course I can. however I'm not about to be button-holed and "pull out" ours like the OP suggested nor post pics of our collection on your whim. there are plenty fellow members here that know us and the stuff we have and what I think of the inflated values some owners put on their watches. While i'm at it I could post pics of rare Rolexes and Tudors of ours that are featured in the Vintage Rolex Archive as well, but no need as you can easily view them there yourself. The issue here is I don't speak of values on them in terms of what they are going to be worth in the future. We like them and are keeping them.

smitty190373
I can only speak of the ones i've seen, and they were both Ebay sales.

There you go. My point in this thread is we don't pay much attention to how a few internet traders and "experts" are pricing stuff. We buy watches in person not on the net. To us that's where true value comes into play. If you want to buy a Pogue or two reasonably your best bet is hit the streets and shops of Manhattan, or Cebu City Philippines. Oh...and to dispel the notion that certain seikos were ONLY for the American or North American market, we have bought those exact model numbers in the Philippines as well. It is not a hard a fast rule as some experts will tell you.

Dan S · Feb 1, 2020

The claim of $2,500 is not accurate in my experience. Maybe someone is asking that price, but excellent examples still sell for less than $1,000. That said, I think that various Seiko chronographs have some potential to increase in value modestly, and a few could really take off, most notably the 5717/5719, especially with the original plastic bezel. These pieces really seem to have all the elements to be a broadly desirable watch for vintage enthusiasts ... rarity, an Olympic connection, good looks, a delicate bezel that is often broken or replaced, etc. Maybe I should just shut up now, since I don't own one yet.

The 6139-600x references have historical interest, but the style does not appeal to everyone, and they are perhaps too common.

Dan S · Feb 1, 2020

pseikotick
Dan, you will not find a true Pogue as I have noted for less than 1500 unless it's a BIN and a seller who just didn't know. Again, Spencer Klein sells more than anyone. He is well known in the Seiko world. And the fact that I own one means nothing here.

OK, so now we are down to $1,500. You may be right, they really don't appeal to me that much and I can't say I follow prices very carefully of each particular variant. However, these claims would be more credible if you posted some links to specific sales/auction prices (not asking prices), that would be much appreciated, and valuable as a reference for perpetuity.

And honestly I think your language toward @janice&fred is unwarranted. I realize that they can be argumentative, but you've taken it to another level. Let's keep things civil.

smitty190373 · Feb 1, 2020

Dan S
they are perhaps too common.

True pogues are not common.

Seiko True Pogue has the right stuff to BLAST off

pseikotick

jsducote

SpeedyPhill

smitty190373

Gav1967

janice&fred

Walrus

SpeedyPhill

smitty190373

asrnj77

befobe

janice&fred

Gav1967

smitty190373

janice&fred

smitty190373

janice&fred

Dan S

Dan S

smitty190373

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