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Seiko True Pogue has the right stuff to BLAST off
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Flatfoot
·I agree with pdxleaf’s opinion on the second watch shown by lightweight. Appears to me to be a repro dial and bezel
the dial in the first example appears to me to be an original Seiko. But if it is indeed a repro dial, I have not seen one like this - or this good before.
I have seen a number of Pogue dials, and the clean white lume color is fairly typical, as is the way it has been applied - appearing slightly pillow-like. The 6009T suffix, with good spacing of all digits, flat top “A”s in JAPAN etc etc. It’s pretty damn good if a repro. Color looks really good , with that orange hue coming through nicely. However that is also a function of lighting and camera.
Aged, patinated original dials often have discoloration around the sharp edge where the subdial meets the large flat plane of the dial. It is not definitive, but just another marker for an original dial.
But what gives me pause is the fact that the case has been polished, and it has a repro bezel. And the seller’s name references restoration! All that begs the question of what else may have been done.
the dial in the first example appears to me to be an original Seiko. But if it is indeed a repro dial, I have not seen one like this - or this good before.
I have seen a number of Pogue dials, and the clean white lume color is fairly typical, as is the way it has been applied - appearing slightly pillow-like. The 6009T suffix, with good spacing of all digits, flat top “A”s in JAPAN etc etc. It’s pretty damn good if a repro. Color looks really good , with that orange hue coming through nicely. However that is also a function of lighting and camera.
Aged, patinated original dials often have discoloration around the sharp edge where the subdial meets the large flat plane of the dial. It is not definitive, but just another marker for an original dial.
But what gives me pause is the fact that the case has been polished, and it has a repro bezel. And the seller’s name references restoration! All that begs the question of what else may have been done.
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lightweight
·Here's a great guide. Also read their guide on bezels.
https://www.vintagewatchadvisors.com/2019/07/20/seiko-pogue-authentication-part-ii-dials/
Wow! thats an awesome resource thanks!
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mrbreen
·2nd watch is a resist dial in a 1974 case, which shouldn’t be correct. And both watches have a textured day window. That seems… like a big red flag, no?
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pdxleaf
·2nd watch is a resist dial in a 1974 case, which shouldn’t be correct. And both watches have a textured day window. That seems… like a big red flag, no?
I'm only familiar with the the early cases from about 1969 to 70 that had notches at the crown, with no notches in later cases. Were there other differences?
Also, the textured date window difference is a good tip. Something else I learned. Thanks.
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mrbreen
·Yeah, you’d expect Proof/Resist on a notched case as they were all early. I was able to see the date of that particular case in the ad.
And this is the red flag I’m referring to. I can’t ever recall seeing that verticals texture around the day window.
Also, the inner rotating bezels on both look fake as well.
And this is the red flag I’m referring to. I can’t ever recall seeing that verticals texture around the day window.
Also, the inner rotating bezels on both look fake as well.
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pdxleaf
·Yeah, you’d expect Proof/Resist on a notched case as they were all early. I was able to see the date of that particular case in the ad.
And this is the red flag I’m referring to. I can’t ever recall seeing that verticals texture around the day window.
Also, the inner rotating bezels on both look fake as well.
Some early resists had notched cases but not all or even most.
Good eye on the vertical textures. Looking back through just the pictures in this thread it appeared to be a mixture. Worth digging into more. I never noticed the differences so thanks for identifying that.
The inner bezels are problematic. They are prone to fading and come in a great variety of shades. Just for me, if all else checks out I tend to accept the inner bezel is okay, although i prefer ones that aren't all white.
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keepsonticking
·Second is definitely not an original Seiko dial. I'd need more pucs of the first to 100% say it's not real.
The first is the true Pogue made for American market (17 jewels). The second reference is not a true Pogue as it is for non-American market, even if the fial was original.
I agree with your opinion about the case seeing some polish
A few suspiciously good looking for the price Pogues on the bay' right now. Wondering what you all think. Lots of watches in worse condition selling for 1200-1300.
If i had to be picky I would say that the lume on the first watch looks a little too white for a watch of its age. The second watch has clearly seen some polishing and the bezel is in good but not perfect shape. If these are authentic Pogues they seem to represent incredible value but my mind is saying if something seems to good to be true it probably is.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225048007116?hash=item3465e811cc:g:UC8AAOSww6NhW6FE&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAoMXDRcuu+lCItBq/WFDyCfVaq92P54O3b6aHONmmhwmy1r31YLlYnxwAideBDSszJLvgXU7QAgQoYsEOQO0Hushzjrl62GyH7Wd4U1vtwONH6VEDPFNsv2JOO0ao6Ik4mgh+EwCkzEJppImj7Qvz1WmuGof3eL8y0p0KyZju28sse4n3xIsqFt6fFNb7NDEeoe8iWy4MmKkJ6BIZ2qUBMt4=|tkp:Bk9SR_icx4GBYQ
https://www.ebay.com/itm/295232048805?_trkparms=amclksrc=ITM&aid=1110006&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=241967&meid=d917747631a04131aa012336edc3fb70&pid=101195&rk=1&rkt=12&sd=225048007116&itm=295232048805&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&algv=SimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeedKnnRecallV1&brand=Seiko&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum:295232048805d917747631a04131aa012336edc3fb70|enc:AQAHAAABIMFr2e4EmAnM%2ByHZkULYKDIJ4L66fOjNL0iupgt%2BzO1%2F3AE1t3mNirUYB96NktMCicMagiS6mbeTl0xquGODv9kCWrLoIKKaW5dsNlEIKs%2FHUFfZZ%2FSCTRiXRyUEBEmC%2FjrGU1KN%2FvFM401arkL21f3YJJfGfYmFmMlhdSFPmTrUsq7nZrW2IoP53tiwbJJGdWoSzsh7bICUfDyKQQIFxlVKUCBFVDySPyge73hxjDfj84XPAsYmZhrv9Qf4hIcB0rJRwAkLTw303t%2BWhSzX40P0z0oC6ZxSmxrSmkLFQ%2BqXbtvTSPuuV0tLcACUDEzon0vQ6dMh0gw8Pnq5faWjrW9bZ7crpVeG7RuZjgIp%2F24T7M%2BTg2lJQbLcJeJnJ%2FrQ5A%3D%3D|ampid😜L_CLK|clp:2047675
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keepsonticking
·I agree with pdxleaf’s opinion on the second watch shown by lightweight. Appears to me to be a repro dial and bezel
the dial in the first example appears to me to be an original Seiko. But if it is indeed a repro dial, I have not seen one like this - or this good before.
I have seen a number of Pogue dials, and the clean white lume color is fairly typical, as is the way it has been applied - appearing slightly pillow-like. The 6009T suffix, with good spacing of all digits, flat top “A”s in JAPAN etc etc. It’s pretty damn good if a repro. Color looks really good , with that orange hue coming through nicely. However that is also a function of lighting and camera.
Aged, patinated original dials often have discoloration around the sharp edge where the subdial meets the large flat plane of the dial. It is not definitive, but just another marker for an original dial.
But what gives me pause is the fact that the case has been polished, and it has a repro bezel. And the seller’s name references restoration! All that begs the question of what else may have been done.
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