Seamaster movements fitted in a Speedmaster from factory.

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The error might have occurred between the production card that holds date of delivery of the movement to Omega, as well as the actual assembly date of the watch and reference and the delivery books that state the reference- hand written - and the destinarion of delivery. No rule without exeption. I own a 105.012 which is a 145.012 in the books, but clearly a 105.012 on the production card. There you go..
 
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I wouldn't say they have been busted so to speak. Like @gefmey said above, those years were not like it is today in terms of control etc. I have a 2998 and a 105.012-64 that they have no record for at all.

Its just how things were run back then, shame we are just discovering it now though.

I was being amusing.

It seems that what Omega now calls its archive was once just its pre-production planning record, and not consistently updated with actual production information.

Disappointing but good to know. Thank you @DLT222 !
 
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I was being amusing.

It seems that what Omega now calls its archive was once just its pre-production planning record, and not consistently updated with actual production information.

Disappointing but good to know. Thank you @DLT222 !
Sorry, wrong. It was. Post-production for warrranty purposes. Having a bunch of references going astray doesn't render the wole thing void. People where noting down things hand written, errors occur. And 50+ years later someone researches it, with two sources. He might have gone for the books in this case instead of scrolling miles of microfiche. And someone might ave noted down the wrong reference back then. And I can tell you, this is not guess work, I know what I am talking about.
 
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People where noting down things hand written, errors occur. And 50+ years later someone researches it, with two sources. He might have gone for the books in this case instead of scrolling miles of microfiche. And someone might ave noted down the wrong reference back then.

Point taken. Additional sources of errors.

A lot of money can be staked on the content of these extracts, without most people understanding how the materials that now constitute the archive were created by Omega or are currently researched by Omega.
 
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I was beginning to suspect that with the new extract process omega was just issuing certificates for the refs that they have no records for, by using their spidey sense with the pics provided by the client. So now this new development adds more to my suspicion..
 
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I don’t think this is a new development. Yes there are some holes in the records, and sometimes people write down numbers incorrectly, and sometimes the archivist makes a mistake looking up the extract. Movements also get swapped when it’s cheaper or easier than a repair. Life is imperfect.
 
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Today, I was contacted by someone who has a Straight Writing with the same issue. The movement was originally destined for a Seamaster but fitted to a Speedmaster.
Interesting. Last year I also bought a straight writing Speedy that the archive came back as Soccer Timer Seamaster movement....
I also discussed it with Charles but he never mentioned this:

Having spoken to Charles at the Omega Museum, he kindly explained that some watches in the 60s were fitted with movements destined for say a seamaster but actually fitted to a speedmaster. He goes on to say that this was due to several factors like the actual reference that the movement was originally made for was not selling well so production was stopped and the movements were fitted in other cases that would accommodate that movement.

😵‍💫
 
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Why is the owner requesting an extract if he’s the original owner and already knows it’s complete story?

Back in the day when you could just email John or Maria you'd get when the watch was completed and where it was originally sent for sale.

Tom
 
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Having spoken to Charles at the Omega Museum, he kindly explained that some watches in the 60s were fitted with movements destined for say a seamaster but actually fitted to a speedmaster. He goes on to say that this was due to several factors like the actual reference that the movement was originally made for was not selling well so production was stopped and the movements were fitted in other cases that would accommodate that movement.

.

So anything official from Omega on this 😗

as Charles at the Museum said so... is like blueberry bezeled Speedmasters
 
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Back in the day when you could just email John or Maria you'd get when the watch was completed and where it was originally sent for sale.

Tom
That is correct, but to verify that the movement belongs to the reference you needed an EoA
 
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So anything official from Omega on this 😗

as Charles at the Museum said so... is like blueberry bezeled Speedmasters

What are we hoping for? An official bulletin that the records at Omega contain some errors and we may not be able to confirm your watches provenance. Bad luck!
 
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That is correct, but to verify that the movement belongs to the reference you needed an EoA

Surprisingly not. I described a watch to John and he said it was incorrect and assembled from parts.

Tom
 
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What are we hoping for? An official bulletin that the records at Omega contain some errors and we may not be able to confirm your watches provenance. Bad luck!

So the next poor bloke or dodgy dealer that comes along with a Seamaster movement in a Speedmaster we just go, it’s possible.

Not expecting anything official just a little piece of credibility to the fact.
 
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So the next poor bloke or dodgy dealer that comes along with a Seamaster movement in a Speedmaster we just go, it’s possible.

Not expecting anything official just a little piece of credibility to the fact.

I think some extra provenance to suggest a mistake would be necessary to cast doubt on the EOA. A one owner unserviced watch, or the paperwork to support the movement number as correct.
If you are just putting it out there that your Seamaster movement could be a Speedmaster then no statement from Omega will make this more palatable.
 
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So the next poor bloke or dodgy dealer that comes along with a Seamaster movement in a Speedmaster we just go, it’s possible.

I'm guessing we will see a lot more "one owner" watches that have the wrong movements in them coming out of the woodwork, claiming they came that way from the factory. I would personally take such claims with the largest grain of salt possible. Someone telling you they have owned a watch since new is not easy to verify in a real, tangible way. This sort of news is very beneficial to the people most prone to abuse it.

I can tell you from personal experience opening up "one owner unserviced watches" that often they have actually been serviced previously. Family history of older objects tends to be very shaky...

Cheers, Al
 
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From my point of view I would still value and consider any Seamaster movement in a Speedmaster to be a franken, and yea there will be people that try to use this thread to justify put together watches like the 105.012-63 I have, for all intents and purposes if the extract says Seamaster and the serial range is wrong I'd still just call the watch wrong.
 
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From my point of view I would still value and consider any Seamaster movement in a Speedmaster to be a franken, and yea there will be people that try to use this thread to justify put together watches like the 105.012-63 I have, for all intents and purposes if the extract says Seamaster and the serial range is wrong I'd still just call the watch wrong.

I tend to agree with this 100%. Whatever story is being told, the fact is that you will not be getting anything else from Omega than an Extract that confirms that this serial was originally intended to be a (or even produced as a) Seamaster. What does it change? Only the value. So if the buyer buys also the story, he will pay accordingly. If he doesn't he'll expect the price to reflect the mismatch. Who's mistake - who cares? It is what it is...
 
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So howe can you now have 2 watches that have been owned since new, one with corresponding serial and stamped card from new matching the serial on the watch exactly, added to the fact Charles has said it is very possible that this happened back then. You cannot argue with the fact that the heritage department has told you that very thing that it is very possible.

We now have more than one watch in this thread with the same issue, 2 of which were in the same ownership from new. We simply cannot call these people liars!
 
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A one owner unserviced watch, or the paperwork to support the movement number as correct.

We have that already... a speedy with serial matching the ORIGINAL warranty paper from new thats been in single ownership and never opened except to gain the serial for an EoA.
 
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with corresponding serial and stamped card from new matching the serial on the watch exactly

a speedy with serial matching the ORIGINAL warranty paper from new thats been in single ownership and never opened except to gain the serial for an EoA.

In all cases, are these 'serial on warranty' hand-written? Or printed by Omega?