Seamaster cal. 564, help needed!

panzerpligel · Feb 14, 2019

Hi there, recently I've been searching for a new watch for my collection and vintage Omegas caught my attention.

I got an offer for a Omega Seamaster with cal. 564 (Chronometer) with date only. He said that this particular watch is pretty rare and ask for $900 for the watch.

Do you guys have any tips when buying vintage Omegas? and is this watch worth the price?

Cheers!

efauser · Feb 15, 2019

panzerpligel
Do you guys have any tips when buying vintage Omegas?
Cheers!

Read the stickies at the top of the vintage board. Start with Learn How to Fish

guwipa · Feb 15, 2019

Hi Panzer,

From my perspective nothing stands against the watch, movement looks well-serviced and clean and if case has been refurbished it was done well so far. Looks like all being in original state to me.

Price seems acceptable as well since here in Germany we do have a slightly higher price level on these 166.022 chronos. and there are not so many around esp. in that condition.

From first sight I would say go for it

Best,

Winny

panzerpligel · Feb 15, 2019

efauser
Read the stickies at the top of the vintage board. Start with Learn How to Fish

Actually I have read the stickies, just asking for additional information, sorry!

guwipa
Hi Panzer,

From my perspective nothing stands against the watch, movement looks well-serviced and clean and if case has been refurbished it was done well so far. Looks like all being in original state to me.

Price seems acceptable as well since here in Germany we do have a slightly higher price level on these 166.022 chronos. and there are not so many around esp. in that condition.

From first sight I would say go for it

Best,

Winny

Thankyou for your opinion Winny! The seller also offer similar model but with cal. 1011 with a slightly lower price (however it still has the original leather strap and buckle). Is there a lot of difference between cal. 564 and cal. 1011?

X350 XJR · Feb 15, 2019

panzerpligel
Actually I have read the stickies, just asking for additional information, sorry!

Thankyou for your opinion Winny! The seller also offer similar model but with cal. 1011 with a slightly lower price (however it still has the original leather strap and buckle). Is there a lot of difference between cal. 564 and cal. 1011?

5xx and 10xx are completely different family of movements, with the 5xx series typically held in higher regard.

KingCrouchy · Feb 15, 2019

Decide yourself what you find prettier and better. The 10XX had issues with reliability because they where a fast beat movement for the times 28'800 vs 19800 in the Cal.564.
When Omega did the 5XX Calibres they were at their peak, the 10XX is seen as their decline.
So you can judge what you prefer. But that's not always the case, I have a Cal 1002 that works perfectly and is at +2 Sec a day.

ConElPueblo · Feb 15, 2019

I don't think $900 is a bad price for this. The case looks to be in good condition and the dial is seemingly without obvious flaws, which is good as the dial is the no. 1 concern on these.

If Omega had released these with cal. 551 it would have been... Awesome. Not a word I use a lot.

panzerpligel · Feb 15, 2019

X350 XJR
5xx and 10xx are completely different family of movements, with the 5xx series typically held in higher regard.

Thank you for the information Sir!

KingCrouchy
Decide yourself what you find prettier and better. The 10XX had issues with reliability because they where a fast beat movement for the times 28'800 vs 19800 in the Cal.564.
When Omega did the 5XX Calibres they were at their peak, the 10XX is seen as their decline.
So you can judge what you prefer. But that's not always the case, I have a Cal 1002 that works perfectly and is at +2 Sec a day.

Yes, I read that in the 70s they need to fight with Quartz watches. Thank you for your input!

ConElPueblo
I don't think $900 is a bad price for this. The case looks to be in good condition and the dial is seemingly without obvious flaws, which is good as the dial is the no. 1 concern on these.

If Omega had released these with cal. 551 it would have been... Awesome. Not a word I use a lot.

Is it possible that the dial has been restored(redone)? Thank you for your input Sir!

Here I have more photo of the watch from the sides.

Dan S · Feb 16, 2019

Nice sparkle dial. 👍

Davidt · Feb 16, 2019

panzerpligel
Is it possible that the dial has been restored(redone)? Thank you for your input Sir!

Here I have more photo of the watch from the sides.

Looks original to me.

These dials tend to hold up very well (possibly due to both the dial quality as well as the robustness of the case) and can often be found in very good condition.

ConElPueblo · Feb 16, 2019

panzerpligel
Is it possible that the dial has been restored(redone)? Thank you for your input Sir!

That would be very, very surprising... The case looks ok. It has been polished, but not excessively. Have a look here for an original: https://omegaforums.net/threads/seamaster-chronometer-168-023-sparkly.47586/

panzerpligel · Feb 16, 2019

Davidt
Looks original to me.

These dials tend to hold up very well (possibly due to both the dial quality as well as the robustness of the case) and can often be found in very good condition.

Thankyou for your input Sir!

ConElPueblo
That would be very, very surprising... The case looks ok. It has been polished, but not excessively. Have a look here for an original: https://omegaforums.net/threads/seamaster-chronometer-168-023-sparkly.47586/

Thank you Sir, I think I will pull the trigger on this one

fskywalker · Feb 16, 2019

Price seems reasonable for it. The 168.022 date only model is not that common (versus the 168.023 / 166.032 models, which have day and date). My birthyear 168.022 (which has a pretty deteriorated dial, in the process of finding a replacement dial) says hi!

snunez · Feb 16, 2019

Nice reference. Does anyone know if they made a non-date version?

panzerpligel · Feb 18, 2019

fskywalker
Price seems reasonable for it. The 168.022 date only model is not that common (versus the 168.023 / 166.032 models, which have day and date). My birthyear 168.022 (which has a pretty deteriorated dial, in the process of finding a replacement dial) says hi!

Thank you for the information! I think your dial looks good, nice watch!

Kwijibo · Feb 18, 2019

KingCrouchy
Decide yourself what you find prettier and better. The 10XX had issues with reliability because they where a fast beat movement for the times 28'800 vs 19800 in the Cal.564.
When Omega did the 5XX Calibres they were at their peak, the 10XX is seen as their decline.
So you can judge what you prefer. But that's not always the case, I have a Cal 1002 that works perfectly and is at +2 Sec a day.

What do I hear??? the 1012 movement is probably one of the best movement ever produced by Omega. I have serviced tones of 5xx and 10xx movement and I can tell you that the 1012 if far more accurate, reliable than any 5xx will be. I recently serviced a 1012 ans it's probably the most accurate movement I serviced. Many people only see how they look and that's all. The 1012 is seen as more ugly but personnaly I don't care much.
The only issue that these movement had is their plastic date disk which teeth tended to wear out. The second hand pinion is also a little fragile because the ring on it is not cut into the pinion but added to it and tend to move if you don't hold the second pinnion on the good movement holder.
As for the watch itself, it's a rather rare exemple. So the price is quite tricky to determine. Mine says hello

Archer · Feb 18, 2019

Kwijibo
What do I hear??? the 1012 movement is probably one of the best movement ever produced by Omega.

I think you are going to be a lone voice in the wilderness shouting that opinion mate...

Kwijibo · Feb 18, 2019

Dear Archer

It’s been quite long since you last disagree with me 🙄
As you say, I’m probably going to find a vast majority of people finding the 5XX family better looking.
I’m not talking here about cosmetics or the look of the watches around these movements.
I would be interested to here your technical positions on each movement (honnestly)
I can talk about the 1012 that I love so much. Slim, elegant in its own way.
Some points that I love compared to the 5XX family :
- I rarely saw an oscillating weight damaging its axis on a 1012. the automatic device is slower and takes less force. On the 5XX family, the topic is often discussed here (my weight touches the edges of the movement, or the casebook etc etc).The attaching system on the 1012 makes the oscillating weight way more mobile and softer.
the date system is in my opinion much better. Bi directional setting. The star system is so well designed and clever. The only thing I like more on a 565 is the fact that the part that holds the sate ring in place (sorry I forgot the word in English) is attached to the plate. The date correction on a 565 is… often one of the first thing that runs badly when I receive a wash cot service.
The hacking feature has always been important for me and though it’s mechanism is partly made of plastic (or delryn?) it does the job more than well. Never had any issues with it.
I admit too that I don’t really like the position of the micro adjusting screw but I don’t find it better located on a 552/565 or else.
Dial screw position is much more pratical.

finally, the one thing I don’t like much on the 1012 is the cannon pinion that can be tricky, I admit it’s better on a 5XX. The swan neck of the balance cock is more elegant also one a 55X so is the rotor.
One thing that I know for sure it that concerning servicing. I rarely saw an old 1012 refusing to start correctly and giving « weird amplitude «. The hairspring due to the frequency and size of the balance wheel is far more sturdy.
Reaching a 300° amplitude on a 1012 is not uncommon. When I reach 260 on a 565 after oiling the incas I’m glad.
A few weeks ago, I wore my 1012 for more than a week and it tooks about 1,5 seconds in a week (no joke)
despite all that, I agree that the 5XX family was a huge step in watch history because of many other things.
cheers

Archer · Feb 18, 2019

Kwijibo
As you say, I’m probably going to find a vast majority of people finding the 5XX family better looking.
I’m not talking here about cosmetics or the look of the watches around these movements.

You have reverted to a comparison between the 1012 and the "5XX" family, which would also include the 501. I'm assuming you meant the 55X and 56X families.

Even if all your points were true (very debatable to say the least) that's still a long ways from you showing how the 1012 "is probably one of the best movement ever produced by Omega"...

Every movement is a series of compromises, and there are positives and negatives associated with each movement, including many you have already pointed out (the 1000 and 1010 series are certainly full of compromises). To be clear I don't believe the 55X and 56X movements are the "best ever" as many people (collectors) believe them to be. I personally tend to not make statements about what is the "best ever" because no one has defined what parameters are under consideration.

Like those trying to claim what is polished and unpolished, it is a somewhat fruitless exercise that I leave to those with skin in the game to argue about...

Cheers, Al

Kwijibo · Feb 18, 2019

We do all have our preferences. When I say the best, I should say y favorite (and for a three hands). Can you tell us what movement you love to work on?

Seamaster cal. 564, help needed!

panzerpligel

efauser

guwipa

panzerpligel

X350 XJR

KingCrouchy

ConElPueblo

panzerpligel

Dan S

Davidt

ConElPueblo

panzerpligel

fskywalker

snunez

panzerpligel

Kwijibo

Archer

Kwijibo

Archer

Kwijibo

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