Sapphire on new .321 vs new .3861 - different parts, or?

cvalue13 · Jan 12, 2021

As for modern Speedmasters with a black dial, I am in the camp of very much disliking the milky ring created by sapphire crystals. The only modern Sapphire speedmaster I have is the Tokyo 2020 panda, and it only barely gets a pass because the milk blends in to the iridescent white dial enough for my tolerance. This is purely a personal irk, and I only wish it were otherwise.

When this watch was announced I was in the market for something special, and fortunate to have room in the budget. Like everyone else I purchased it site unseen. As I waited the 356 days between purchase and receipt, I worried most about how I’d receive the sapphire.

Obviously, I was more than relieved: I was damn curious!

Yukatan · Jan 12, 2021

I also think there could be just some production variances with the crystals (different suppliers?), even with the same model. For example a Sapphire sandwich I saw at the AD had a more milky ring, and the profile was more boxy as shown in the previous pic. Mine is slightly more curved, not quite to 321 levels but to the point where the milky ring doesn't bug me much.

Gruesome · Jan 13, 2021

Yukatan
I also think there could be just some production variances with the crystals (different suppliers?), even with the same model. For example a Sapphire sandwich I saw at the AD had a more milky ring, and the profile was more boxy as shown in the previous pic. Mine is slightly more curved, not quite to 321 levels but to the point where the milky ring doesn't bug me much.

Since the gasket material is in direct contact with the frosted surface, small differences in the contact could change the amount of reflection at this interface. One could see how small variations between crystals could contribute, like different contact pressure due to slight variations in crystal diameter, or different surface roughness. Even different cleaning for crystal or gasket could change the contact.

cvalue13 · Jan 16, 2021

Cross-posting from another thread this side-by-side of the Platinum 321B and SS 321B.

Based on discussion above, it’s interesting to find this much variation between these two watches. Id come to almost expect that “premium” offerings were prone to avoiding the milky ring, but this side-by-side clearly shows otherwise

Travelller

I'm really, REALLY happy that for reasons beyond my understanding, Omega's infamous milk-ring is much less apparent with the Ed White - as clearly seen in the above pic(s) from member Woogle's recent thread

@Robert-Jan suggested it might be (the difference in) the depth of the rehaut which is as good a clarification as any. A friend suggested it might be the O-Ring color (I think the standard production sapphire Speedmasters use a white or semi-clear O-ring). I'm sure @Archer has been asked this question (multiple times) but if I could bother him to maybe answer it once more... much appreciated 👍

padders · Jan 16, 2021

Has is occurred to you at all that you might just be lucky with how your crystal is seated and that all sapphire crystal Speedmaster are to a greater or lesser degree subject to the so called milky ring effect? I say that since you might be chasing a unicorn here. You've looked at crystal design and seating gasket and so far there hasnt been an obvious reason why some show the effect more than others. Maybe they all do. My FOIS shows quite a bit, my Broad Arrow a lot less so my (admittedly very limited) survey says there is a pretty wide variance. Luckily for me it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I get as much enjoyment from looking at my FOIS as my plastic crystal Ed White, (well nearly 😉)

cvalue13 · Jan 16, 2021

padders
Has is occurred to you at all that you might just be lucky with how your crystal is seated and that all sapphire crystal Speedmaster are to a greater or lesser degree subject to the so called milky ring effect?

👎

have yet to see a photo of a SS 321B with anything at all resembling the above-pictured platinum 321B.

I’d suspect there are some other sapphire models that avoid the milk (such as perhaps the 2007 pro model discussed further above?).

But so far, it does seem to be a model-consistent phenomenon rather than a variable at the individual watch level.

I appreciate, though, your having come this far along on this particular psychedelic trip with me 😁

rcb · Jan 16, 2021

johnny5
Since I own a variety of speedmasters including a 321 I’ll add some photos here that might help.

Holy smokes, that is a nice modern Omega collection!

s2000_driver · Jan 17, 2021

padders
Has is occurred to you at all that you might just be lucky with how your crystal is seated and that all sapphire crystal Speedmaster are to a greater or lesser degree subject to the so called milky ring effect? I say that since you might be chasing a unicorn here. You've looked at crystal design and seating gasket and so far there hasnt been an obvious reason why some show the effect more than others. Maybe they all do. My FOIS shows quite a bit, my Broad Arrow a lot less so my (admittedly very limited) survey says there is a pretty wide variance. Luckily for me it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I get as much enjoyment from looking at my FOIS as my plastic crystal Ed White, (well nearly 😉)

The pictures are accurate. There is no milky ring on the new SS 321. Don't think it is an exception; they are all like that. Only Omega can explain what exactly is going on with this particular crystal. Even the brand new 3861 sapphire Speedy has the thick milky ring. Especially in person, next to the hesalite feels very prominent.

Abho · Jan 19, 2021

I'm wondering if it would be possible (although expensive) to get the 321 sappire as service part and place it in the 3861.

Since your knowledge is orders off magnitude beyond of mine, I would like to ask you about the cross model compatibility of parts (crystal, bezel…) between speedy models (diameter assembly and multitude of factors which I'm not taking into account may derail my idea).

Since 3861 is quite new and 321 is scarcely seen in the wild, this question probably cannot be answered, but I cannot think about a better place to raise this question that in this knowledge pool.

Hopefully I will not be dressed down for considering this abomination 😀

Travelller · Apr 19, 2021

cvalue13
...a profile photo of the new 3861 sapphire speedy ... if there’s a difference with the cal.321 (middle pic), It would seem to need calipers to notice - they look too similar to explain away the perceived differences in milky ring. And so both seem equally different from the prior model’s sapphire (bottom pic)

...and here I thought we finally had an answer to the mystery of the milk ring... until you made the above post *sigh*

I have one single "boxed crystal" in my collection, belonging to my Grand Seiko SBGA125G and I suspect it might be as obtrusive as the sapphire Speedmaster's if it weren't for the white dial...

Well, I guess it's back to the drawing board... ! In any event, thanks to the OP & all contributors for the great read! 📖👍

cvalue13 · Apr 21, 2021

Travelller
...and here I thought we finally had an answer to the mystery of the milk ring... until you made the above post *sigh*
...
Well, I guess it's back to the drawing board... ! In any event, thanks to the OP & all contributors for the great read! 📖👍

Well, since the above thread, what’s become more concrete is that the SS321B is widely agreed to lack the “milky ring,” unlike its siblings with sapphire.

And while the reason for this lack of milky ring we haven’t yet fully nailed, I think the thread above did pull together that the ultimate answer is multi-factorial: crystal shape, crystal texture at gasket interface, gasket color, extent of gasket contact, etc.

But back to the ORIGINAL intrigue of the post: whatever the explanation in wrt the SS321B, now that we know it’s (somehow) possible to avoid the milky ring it is curious Omega hasn’t similarly addressed the other sapphire sibling’s milky rings - and based on the thread above, probably not with any drastic or costly measures required.

Surely the milky ring has been maligned enough by now to at least be on Omega’s radar as a “con” to sapphire, so it’s strange ...

Omarrye · Oct 30, 2022

Old thread but I think it deserves a bump since more people have the 321 in their possession than a year ago. This photo I found online shows the sapphire 3861 and the Ed White to have about the same size ring around the crystal

Evitzee · Oct 30, 2022

Omarrye
Old thread but I think it deserves a bump since more people have the 321 in their possession than a year ago. This photo I found online shows the sapphire 3861 and the Ed White to have about the same size ring around the crystal

Probably due to the lighting for that pic. I'm looking at my Ed White 321 now and I just don't see anything that would jump out and say 'milky ring' compared to an 1861 or 3861 sapphire version when that effect is clearly present under similar lighting.

cvalue13 · Oct 30, 2022

Evitzee
Probably due to the lighting for that pic. I'm looking at my Ed White 321 now and I just don't see anything that would jump out and say 'milky ring' compared to an 1861 or 3861 sapphire version when that effect is clearly present under similar lighting.

agree. No doubt the 321 is a sapphire crystal and that in certain lights and angles you can catch moments of the “milky ring,” but the distinction is that with the 1861/3861 you’re unable to find any light/angles they don’t have it

4011021 · Oct 31, 2022

1861 and 3861 are not the same either regarding the milky ring.

Matty1 · Aug 12, 2023

Eve
There was a discussion here that the 2007 Sapphire sandwich 3573.50 had less "milky ring" compared with the 2017 sapphire sandwich.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/hesalite-vs-sapphire-speedmaster-pro-pics.85579/page-5

i quote @robinhook:
Ok guys... I guess this is a rather rare opportunity so we don’t see much of this comparison on the internet. But I got a hold of a early production 2007 sapphire sandwich 3573.50, and compared it with my current production 2017 sapphire sandwich 311...006. The difference is shocking.

The shape of the crystal is significantly different, resulting the 2017 one having a evident “milking ring”, while the 2007 one looks almost like a hesalite crystal... I don’t think I need to tell you which one is which in the picture... stunning

I don’t know what to make out of that.. I can compare it later with my hesalite, to be continued...

Ok... from left to right:
1. Hesalite 3570.50
2. Sapphire 3573.50 - 2007
3. Sapphire 311...006 - 2017

I think this 2007 3573.50 is really quite special.

Here are the side view comparison. From the top to bottom:
1. Hesalite
2. Sapphire 3573.50 2007
3. Sapphire 311...006 2017

Just going over an old post and starting looking at my crystal. I have a 006 sapphire. Looks to be on par with the 2007 version rather than the one shown here re 2017 Japan.

thoughts?

scapa · Aug 12, 2023

[QUOTE="padders, post: 1695311, member: 23103"]Has is occurred to you at all that you might just be lucky with how your crystal is seated and that all sapphire crystal Speedmaster are to a greater or lesser degree subject to the so called milky ring effect? I say that since you might be chasing a unicorn here. You've looked at crystal design and seating gasket and so far there hasnt been an obvious reason why some show the effect more than others. Maybe they all do. My FOIS shows quite a bit, my Broad Arrow a lot less so my (admittedly very limited) survey says there is a pretty wide variance. Luckily for me it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I get as much enjoyment from looking at my FOIS as my plastic crystal Ed White, (well nearly 😉)[/QUOTE]

I tend to agree with this. The 3861 sapphire I had briefly was pretty similar to my FOIS in terms of the milky ring effect -- so much so that I'm not sure I could have told them apart from this feature alone.

It doesn't really bother me either, since it tends to be most visible at angles I'm not often using to check time or -- in the case of the FOIS -- admire the dial and handset in a particular turn of light.

Might yet pick up a 3861 hesalite to go with the FOIS, but in the meantime I don't find the ring impacting my enjoyment of the FOIS, and while I ended up moving the 3861 on, that was a matter of straight preference for the FOIS. A less milky sapphire would not have made any difference.

Matty1 · Aug 12, 2023

scapa
[QUOTE="padders, post: 1695311, member: 23103"]Has is occurred to you at all that you might just be lucky with how your crystal is seated and that all sapphire crystal Speedmaster are to a greater or lesser degree subject to the so called milky ring effect? I say that since you might be chasing a unicorn here. You've looked at crystal design and seating gasket and so far there hasnt been an obvious reason why some show the effect more than others. Maybe they all do. My FOIS shows quite a bit, my Broad Arrow a lot less so my (admittedly very limited) survey says there is a pretty wide variance. Luckily for me it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I get as much enjoyment from looking at my FOIS as my plastic crystal Ed White, (well nearly 😉)

I tend to agree with this. The 3861 sapphire I had briefly was pretty similar to my FOIS in terms of the milky ring effect -- so much so that I'm not sure I could have told them apart from this feature alone.

It doesn't really bother me either, since it tends to be most visible at angles I'm not often using to check time or -- in the case of the FOIS -- admire the dial and handset in a particular turn of light.

Might yet pick up a 3861 hesalite to go with the FOIS, but in the meantime I don't find the ring impacting my enjoyment of the FOIS, and while I ended up moving the 3861 on, that was a matter of straight preference for the FOIS. A less milky sapphire would not have made any difference.[/QUOTE]
I was just pointing out my sapphire is more akin the 2007 red box sapphire rather than the Japan one made in 2017 which should be the same as the big box 006.

I still have a milking ring and not fussed.

NGO1 · Aug 12, 2023

Is it “normal” for @cvalue13 to be away this long? It’s been 6 months since your last log-in.

Sapphire on new .321 vs new .3861 - different parts, or?

cvalue13

Yukatan

Gruesome

cvalue13

padders

cvalue13

rcb

s2000_driver

Abho

Travelller

cvalue13

Omarrye

Evitzee

cvalue13

4011021

Matty1

scapa

Matty1

NGO1

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