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  1. Twocats Married... with children Sep 6, 2020

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    I do agree the 800k production sounds high and you are correct saying Rolex sells a great deal of non sports grand models. Saying all that, Rolex SA sponsors a lot of high dollar sports and that costs a great deal, it needs to be paid for some way.

    The report I referenced was a Bloomberg report in 2017 on a 317 page document from Brand Z valuing Rolex at $8 billion dollars. They only sell watches as far as I know so that valuation comes from somewhere.
     
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  2. Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Sep 6, 2020

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    Valuation does not mean profit....

    rolex has untold billions sitting in the bank. They don’t pay taxes.
     
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  3. Twocats Married... with children Sep 6, 2020

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    The valuation is based on the company's potential earnings and cash in hand vs staff, overheads and sponsorship deals.

    Forbes wrote in 2019:

    Rolex is the leading name in luxury wristwatches. It is headquartered in Geneva, Switzerland, but relies on 4,000 watchmakers in more than 100 countries. It created the world's first waterproof watch in 1926. Rolex has a major presence in the sports world with endorsements in golf, motor sports, tennis and yachting. Some of the world's most famous athletes pitch Rolex watches including Tiger Woods, Phil Mickelson, Roger Federer and Lindsey Vonn. The company produces more than 800,000 watches annually.

    4000 employees is a great number of people to pay along with health and pension benefits.

    I still have my doubts on the 800k watches per year even if it equates roughly to 200 watches per employee overall. I understand quite few of the 4000 are actual watchmakers.

    Regardless of how much they are worth or how many people they employ, there should be a lot more watches in the ADs than there are at any given time.
     
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  4. Rodentman Sep 6, 2020

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    The SA's at my AD have their own "lists." When there is incoming stock, they have their internal "allocation" and then the SA decides to whom to offer the watch. If you aren't on the list you may still get a call. I did. It's a convoluted business to be sure. And i agree i sure would like to know where all the watches go.
     
  5. Robbie77 Sep 6, 2020

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    I would think you may get an AirKIng if you pay the deposit. I doubt it on the new Submariner.
     
  6. TechFounder Sep 6, 2020

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    akshayluc420, Scooterino36 and Shay like this.
  7. Twocats Married... with children Sep 6, 2020

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  8. Stripey Sep 13, 2020

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    I haven't seen anything. But even if they had them they'd be stuck in safes to be bundled.
     
  9. Stripey Sep 13, 2020

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    For the last available accounts they paid a little over £10 million in corporation tax in the UK.
     
  10. Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Sep 13, 2020

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    Thier importer does... big difference. They are based in Switzerland and they pay no Swiss taxes.
     
  11. Stripey Sep 13, 2020

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    The Foundation may (probably does, but no one knows for certain) not pay taxes, because of its charitable status. I'd be very surprised if the Swiss SAs don't, given corporate income tax is levied at federal, cantonal and communal level, unless they are all unprofitable, which seems unlikely.

    Legally, of course you are correct that the UK company is a separate entity, so it's not simply a big difference, it's an absolute difference in those terms.

    However, the UK company is a wholly owned subsidiary, and in practical terms, that is £10 million less funneling back to Geneva. Any statement that states that Rolex pays no taxes depends on a conception of Rolex as solely the Foundation. No doubt some other members of the Rolex Group also pay corporate income taxes in their respective countries of incorporation.

    That's before you consider sales taxes (which I don't think it fair to include, as in England VAT is paid by the consumer, not the company, although the company collects the tax on behalf of HMRC). However, I see that Switzerland also has employer taxes, and I assume that the Rolex entities incorporated in Switzerland have employees. So it is probably fair to infer that Rolex at least pays employer taxes in Switzerland.

    Whilst disappearing down this rabbit hole, on a slightly different subject, it was interesting to note how little stock the UK company carries compared to its turnover. I suppose not surprising when you think about it.
     
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  12. Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Sep 13, 2020

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    "The plain fact of the matter is Rolex is actually a series of companies headed up by Rolex S.A. And in fact, just to further complicate things, some of those companies own portions of each other. But basically they all funnel into Rolex S.A., which in turn, is wholly owned by the Hans Wilsdorf Foundation. That foundation is recognized by the Swiss government as a charitable trust, and thus, pays no taxes."
    https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-blog/resources/rolex-non-profit.html
    TLDR:
    No one knows how much they have socked away as it appears they do not have that large of a charitable out flow. Someone a few years ago looked into it and came up with very very little in donations.
     
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  13. Stripey Sep 13, 2020

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    Yeah, I came across the Bob's watches article as a very high ranked result in the searches when you look for information on this. I'd be disinclined to rely on anything in it, because it makes basic errors - e.g. there is no such thing as a Swiss charitable trust - Swiss law does not have a substantive law of trusts at all.

    The second point raises an interesting issue - if there is money stored in the foundation, could Rolex get it back and on what terms? I wouldn't be too inclined to take the donations stuff at face value - if it isn't required to publish material as to what it donates, it will be virtually impossible to trace donations. But I agree that sense suggests there is a lot of money there, presumably for reasons of conservative/prudent management.

    I also noticed that it's pretty staggering how much the highest paid director of the UK company is paid at over £2 million - I want that job!
     
  14. TheRealMe Sep 13, 2020

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    I was wondering how come I haven’t seen the Rolex name doing scholarships. Building hospitals, orphanages and the type. With all the money they make Rolex University?

    How much charity does a foundation in Switzerland need to give every year to be classified as a charity?
     
  15. Stripey Sep 13, 2020

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    It seems that there is no minimum monetary amount. That would be consistent with the position in England. Exemption from taxation is connected to a concept of public utility. There is some more information on this website:

    https://www.ifcreview.com/articles/2019/july/the-swiss-charitable-foundation-a-legislative-update/

    Don't we have any Swiss lawyers or accountants on here?
     
  16. Vale21 Sep 15, 2020

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    I totally agree with you about the fact to have it on your wrist fast but not to pay a stupid price at market or for pre-owned. It's only about the hype.
    I would say that 70 to 80% of Rolex buyers buy the brand, the premium you can get and have no idea what they wear.
    Only 20% really loves the brand, the model they wear if they wear it....
     
  17. slwoodster Sep 15, 2020

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    Demand outstrips supply. Doesn't matter how many they are or aren't making really... There's just more demand.

    I'm a preferred customer at a couple of ADs. Been buying for years, a few watches a year. There's so many camps of people with their own opinions. More and more, I encourage my friends who aren't looking to purchase multiple watches to just find a reasonably priced grey dealer and buy what they like. I requested a hulk earlier this year, couldn't get it. I refused to pay market price from gray dealer and now it's jumped 30% from market price. ($15k to $19k) Last 2 years I haven't even been able to get a sub for a friend's wedding. This is not to say you shouldn't try going to an AD. It's just that you can't really expect much.

    IMHO, the AD "experience" is not that worth it. It's mostly them telling you that they don't have what you want and pointing you to the two tone datejusts. Buy your own champagne/ whiskey when you buy your next watch, at least you get to choose the brand.

    YMMV.
     
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  18. erray77 Sep 18, 2020

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    I would never put down money on a watch unless you hard a hard date for either a watch or a refund. No matter what they tell you there is no true wait list as many would love to believe. The more coveted pieces are going to go to repeat buyers and big spenders first.
     
  19. Shay Sep 18, 2020

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    What is the revenue /
    Forgive my ignorance, is it true that in some case the AD can order the watch? (see below YouTube video).
     
  20. Bushido Sep 18, 2020

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    I don't know all of the details/specifics but I can verify the special order portion. I recently did just this with my local AD. I placed a small deposit, and received a receipt similar to the video. I was also able to get estimated arrivals for each watch as well.