Rolex Explorer II 1655 for everyday wear, or run?

My research tells me that the dial, bezel, and therefore most likely the hands also are service replacements (although tritium).
The seller says that the dial is otherwise clean (that the scratches are all on the crystal).
The facets on the case are not very robust (but not totally gone), and the lugs otherwise look relatively thick/even.
The seller says that they can steam clean the grime on the midcase/endlinks.
The case is a 6703 serial (~1981).
The movement looks clean and is running well.
The bracelet is a 78360 with 580 end links, but the clasp is an S code, so from ~1994?
Have I assessed it correctly?
If priced accordingly (eg < $17k?), do you think it's a fine everyday watch, or is there anything that would make you run?
Thanks!
-Sergio

I agree, so to clarify, since I am not opposed to re-lumes (but I know that can be polarizing), I would have Lukas at Horoluma re-lume it with tritium old stock for a period-correct style, like in the attached example.

Yeah I'm not opposed to that, but I would at least wait and see how much it needs it in person (unless you think it's already obviously that bad based on these photos)? That said, does that mean the rest of the watch seems ok to you? And for that price? Cheers,

How about for $15k? And the dial relume only takes a few weeks and costs ~$500 (I've already done 1 Speedmaster dial with him).

Does the seller have a price or have they asked you to make an offer?

They have offered $17k but I am thinking of countering at $15k. $16k would be a tougher decision...

This lovely one got sold on an auction last October for 18600 € /20100 $ (including the premium).
😀

No dice at $15k. He said $17k is his own break-even. Tough to swallow for that...

Let me know if you come across a better example for ~$17k!

I would pass at 17K. That watch is not attractive at all. By the time you relume and recut the case you’re talking thousands. Also, count on a service on top of that.

I’m sure you will find a better example if you’re patient. It took me a few years to research find my straight hand. I absolutely love it.

The 1655 is a collector's watch and service dial/hands/bezel reduces the value by 40-50%, IMO. Combined with the poor case, I'm very surprised you were willing to pay $15k. It's not appealing at all to me.

Thanks for your comment @Dan S! With the caveat that current Chrono24 list prices are not the best indicator of market value (but it's a useful source of data nonetheless), there are currently 38 1655's listed for over $30k (and a steady supply even up to ~$50k, excluding the highest couple outliers). So for the sake of argument, if the value of a strong 1655 is roughly around $30k, and even if the service parts do reduce the value by 50%, is it really that surprising that I might be willing to pay $15k for this example (i.e., 50% of $30k)? Or do you think that even a strong 1655 just isn't worth close to $30k? And/or, that other flaws reduce the value of this example even more than 50%?

On the 40-50% notion, I may have an unpopular opinion here, but let me pose the question: why do we care so much about originality in the first place? Of course, some of the reason is the "principle" of it, but I would bet that a large(r) part is because many non-original parts on many vintage watches are actually materially different, as in they are literally made from different physical materials, have a different design, and/or are made by different manufacturers. (And I'd venture to guess that this is actually the source of much of the "principle" reason). If we take vintage Speedmasters for example, we care so much about DON bezels, flat-foot crowns, and tritium dials/hands, because the parts that replaced them no longer had specific physical attributes, some of which could be argued to matter inherently more than others, like tritium vs. luminova, which meaningful contributes to a different aesthetic, vs. DON bezels and flat-foot crowns, which are tiny details that most people won't notice in passing and could be argued to just be proxies for originality, which we care about mostly because...lol.

30 years from now, is the fact that someone had their sapphire crystal, ceramic bezel, or superluminova dial/hands replaced during a service going to matter? My guess is that it will matter a lot less (if at all) than having had those analogous parts replaced on a 60's era watch.

To make a long story long (lol), with the example 1655 in this thread, the differences between what would likely have been an original MK IV bezel and the MK V service bezel just aren't that significant, at least to me. Same thing for the original MK V dial vs. MK VI service dial (assuming that the latter is at least still tritium, which it is). Philosophically, I'm also a supporter of re-lumes, laser refinishing, and other restoration work, as long as it's done well and not deceptively, because otherwise too many decent/honest watches and parts with perfectly good potential will end up relegated to the landfill. There were only so many watches made during the golden eras of watchmaking, and they had materials that aren't as resilient as those of today, so I'm a big proponent of doing what we can with the technologies of today to extend the lives of those watches and truly be happy with them rather than losing sight of the spirit of the hobby that I'm sure captivated so many of us to begin with. If I end up paying a little more than what most "collectors" would (but the imperfections can be remedied), I think I can live with that. But thanks for giving me the chance to elaborate @Dan S! And I am curious to know others' thoughts!

-Sergio

Sounds like you have convinced yourself— Go for it!

I wouldn’t look at this watch even at $15K, there is nothing appealing at all. By the time you’re done with all the mods, you’re in for 20K. You can find decent 1655s in that range, C24 is not the place!!

You can put lipstick on a pig, it’s still a pig.

The only thing that is correct in this post is the fact that C24 isn't a good way to judge the market. Using C24 prices is a lazy and useless way to do valuation research. Instead, you need to put in the effort to research auction prices.

The rest of the post shows that you don't understand how collectible watches are valued because of their connection to history. If originality is unimportant to you, and you want to overpay for a watch that would not give most collectors any joy, and you have an elaborate justification for settling, that's fine. Go for it. But what you have posted is basically gibberish to most collectors.

Well said @Dan S

Well, I had convinced myself at $15k, but not $17k!

Way to change the tone of the conversation. But phew, because that was the only thing that could be considered correct/incorrect in this post (the rest of the post was about stating my personal opinions).

I understand how collectible watches are valued. The point of my post was that at least some of the why seems misguided, for example, when nearly indistinguishable parts of have been replaced with OEM parts of the same era (aka "gibberish"). Whereas I at least tried to give many examples and reasons (which you clearly disagree with, which is fine), a blanket assertion of "connection to history" strikes me as a lazy way to disagree/further the discussion.

And don't worry, if all of this means I won't be accepted into the "collector's" club, I can also live with that 😂