Good day to all, today I was looking at a real estate investment opportunity and got to talking to a gentleman who mentioned to me that he had a old rolex submariner and that he would Be interested in selling the watch. So we decided to meet later in the day so I could give him my opinion and evaluation to the best of my ability. When we meet a his home he brought a bag of old watches mainly stuff of no significant interest, and then he brought out the Rolex. I carefully removed the bracelet which is in bad shape and between the lugs was the ref 5513 and ser# 850xxx range. The watch is in very bad condition, polished, crystal scuffed pretty bad and in non working order. The hands do not move and the movement is ceased. I need to ask all the experts a fair price to offer in the condition it’s in. He told me he is the original owners and used the watch alot as seen in the photographs the dials seems to be untouched, the hands and the patina do not match. I was not able to open the case back. Can the experts tell me all the pros and cons of this watch and what I should offer to purchase the watch? Thanks in advance, he threw the box away and recalls only having two services many years ago. Disregard information on the card. He thought he had a 5517

 

Appears to be a pointed crown guard case (consistent with the 8xxxxx serial) with a later feet-first dial. That hurts the value a lot and makes valuation much more difficult. You will probably never find the right gilt-gloss dial for the case. With the right dial, in working condition, it might be worth $25k, even with the rough case. Without the right dial, much less. Of course, the unknown non-working condition of the movement is also a major concern.

It still has a lot of value, even as parts (the dial and hands are attractive), but I think you may need to do your own homework, since it's not so straightforward.

If the dial had been correct, in your place I might have bought it as a project, even with the rough case and non-working movement. With the later dial, I wouldn't be interested in it personally. It would just be something to part out, which doesn't interest me really. If you're interested in selling it as parts, you could do some research and figure out an offer that will allow you to make a profit.

Hope this helps.

 

Something is off on this watch based in the info provided. The dial is a non-Serif which is not period correct for the reference. The correct dial is a gilt gloss to match the pointed crown guard and serial. The pictures are very poor, so I can’t tell if the dial or hands have been damaged. Additionally, the hands were also swapped.

It has a nice folded bracelet (probably with fair amount of stretch) which is valuable as well as an MK1 insert, which in the proper condition commands a premium.

The movement will need service, and likely new parts. I would count on spending at least $800-$1k on proper service and overhaul. I wouldn’t worry about putting a domed crystal, a genuine replacement would be sufficient for this watch which isn’t pricey.

If you're in the market for a beater 5513 with some character, then this is your watch. I wouldn’t offer more than $7k.

Best,
-A

 

Thank you for the information. Just to clarify, the dial was replaced at some point in its life? He did mention that the watch was sent to the factory for a service many years ago.

 

Yes, the dial is not original to the case. I assume the hands as well. It could certainly have happened during a service.

 

Fred and Dan are right. Pointed crown guard, Later MK3 insert, 70s Feet first dial and hands. Probably last time this was serviced, 70s.

Original dial and this is worth 30k+ . 7k is about right for current condition in order to part out - you don't know what can be salvaged

 

Your information is much appreciated. During the years if 1962 and 1963 all 5513’s were gilt dials? Thanks

 

Yes, glossy-gilt dials, and they didn't have "T" on the dial. And after that came glossy-gilt tritium dials, then matte dials with meters-first. Then came the matte feet-first dials like the one in the watch. The dial in the watch is much later, there's no doubt.

 

Gilt dials ended around 1966 / 1.6m serial.

 

I don’t think that’s an MK3 insert, more like a kissing 40 from what I can see which would be an MK1.

Pics aren’t the best.

 

If you are doing value-as-parts, note that the insert has damage (at least two significant chips), the bracelet is probably badly stretched, you really can't see the condition of the dial because of the scratched crystal, the case is rough, and the movement might not have much value depending on condition (I would assume little to be safe). It might be worth $7k, but if you pay that much, there might not be much profit in it.

 

I believe you and I appreciated the information.

 

This Fred wouldn't be a askin no questions on a watch forum...he would already own the thing for around a grand

 

That's a safe buy.

 

If the dial is not damaged, it will for certain have a lot of value due to nice pumpkin patina. I based my valuation mostly on that premise. A pointed guard case also has quite a bit of value (even if it is polished.) The parts can easily bring in $7k.

 

I actually agree. But unless there were some parts I wanted to use for a project, it would only be worth the trouble of parting it out if I were going to make a substantial profit. That's just how I feel about it because I don't really enjoy selling very much.

 

I agree, this is not a for profit project. I would wear it as a beater and enjoy the heck out of it. There is something there in this watch that can be resurrected and appreciated by someone.

 

So my intention is to try to purchase the watch at a fair price and because of its history and knowing the original owner and knowing that he had no knowledge of the changes after the service I would get it running and wear/enjoy it as it is. Can someone please clarify the status of the insert? Original or also replaced during service?

 

This will get you started:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=421487
https://www.watchprosite.com/rolex/...-explored-mk1-through-mk3/732.849983.5769208/

To me, the damaged state of the insert means it doesn't really matter very much for valuation.

 

With so many issues even keeping it as is for a beater to me the watch would be worth $3500 tops. Just too many problems and at $7k you are moving towards buying a correct (albeit later) 5513. JMHO.