Ref. 105.012-66 CB movement reference question for experts

[ortope]

I have a question about the movement serial numbers found in the ref. 105.012 and also 145.012 Speedmasters.

I noticed that in the "Moonwatch Book" there are described some overlapping of the movement's serial number:

You could find some 1966 watches (the date is marked on the inside of the caseback) with a movement that have a lower serial number than a late 1965 watch and you can find the same "problem", finding some 145.012 with lower movement serials that the late 1966 Speedmaster either Hf or CB's.

As far as we know, is this overlapping common or does a movement ref. list exist with a clear limit of the movements used in the watches depending from the production year stamped in the caseback?

It is not seldom to find watches with, for example, stamped " 67" in the caseback and the Omega archive certificate says it was produced later in 1968.
Note: The ref. of the movement, in this case 25.003.851, used in this watch ref. 145.012 could be found also
in a 1966 watch ref. 105.012!?



Would therefore a 25.001.xxx movement be ok for a 105.012 from 1966 in the experts point of view?

Thank you

 

[padders]

Firstly the number stamped in the caseback is an iteration or version number not a strict date of production. Often production occurred in subsequent calendar years. Also some models ran on the same iteration for many years.

Most 145.012-67 and -68 models were made in 1968. Some (most?) 105.012-66 examples left the factory in 1967. The earliest 145.022-68 and 145.022-69 models were seen in 1969. See what I mean.

The extract you show above is for a 145.012-67 and looks perfectly fine to me. It was likely one of the first so yes a number slightly lower could be expected to be a -66 model.

 

[eugeneandresson]

Here is the source of the following table based on research ...

 

[ortope]

Thank you for your advice.
By the way I own a 105.012-66 CB with serial 24.440.xxx

 

[padders]

ortope

Thank you for your advice.
By the way I own a 105.012-66 CB with serial 24.440.xxx

Has it got an extract?

 

[ortope]

Not yet, but it comes with the right case and caseback and a rare B2 dial, that was typically
used in this reference.
No doubt about its originality.
To have the final proof that your watch is 100% ok, you will have to send the watch to Biel
and they will check the watch at a cost of 800.- CHF...

Edited: Dec 6, 2020

 

[padders]

Not really, you don't need to got to that trouble on a sixties Speedy. If it passes with an extract for a 105.012 (they don't give year iterations on extracts but the CB was only seen on the -66 of course) then I would be satisfied that the movement is original, if it doesn't then there is your answer. As you have already noted presumably, yours isn't quite in range for a '66 according to a few reliable sources but it isn't far away.

 

[mr_yossarian]

ortope

To have the final proof that your watch is 100% ok, you will have to send the watch to Biel
and they will check the watch at a cost of 800.- CHF...

Says who? All you realy need is to have verified that movement No. and Reference match. An Extract should be sufficient for that.

 

[padders]

It is in range for a -65 so it could still get an extract with the right ref and have been swapped, but who cares really, the watch looks good. The problem will be if its been swapped with a Seamaster or whatever.

 

[ortope]

The watch in the picture is a totally original late 105.012 - 66 CB that I own for some years.
It comes with the rare B2 dial, and a ref. 25.440.xxx movement serial and the correct band.

By the way was the ref. 1116 band with 575 end links used one the late 105.012-66 watches?

Thank you

 

[padders]

You say totally original, but as already noted it’s not in the accepted range for 66s (see table above and other sources) so I am afraid there is a small shred of doubt. An extract would add confidence. It’s likely absolutely fine but I question your certainty. Unless you owned it from new you can never be certain and funny business can occur even then at service time.

 

[Dan S]

padders

Unless you owned it from new you can never be certain and funny business can occur even then!

Exactly. Why would someone claim that a watch is "totally original", when it's impossible for them to know, and unverifiable. When pushers have been changed, other things could have been changed as well.

 

[Dan S]

ortope

Thank you for your advice.
By the way I own a 105.012-66 CB with serial 24.440.xxx

ortope

The watch in the picture is a totally original late 105.012 - 66 CB that I own for some years.
It comes with the rare B2 dial, and a ref. 25.440.xxx movement serial and the correct band.

Looks like there was a typo that might be causing some confusion. Which serial number did you mean to type?

 

[ortope]

On the Moonwatch Book the 105.012-66 CB serial are located in the serial range in between 24.533.xxx and 25.448.xxx
The watch has a serial 25.444.xxx...
B2 dial like you will mainly find on the CB's

 

[ortope]

Dan S

Looks like there was a typo that might be causing some confusion. Which serial number did you mean to type?

25.440.xxx

 

[Dan S]

ortope

On the Moonwatch Book the 105.012-66 CB serial are located in the serial range in between 24.533.xxx and 25.448.xxx
The watch has a serial 25.444.xxx...
B2 dial like you will mainly find on the CB's

OK, do you see where the confusion came from? You typed the wrong number the first time. Pushers still don't look original to me (and hands maybe repainted), but very nice watch nonetheless. Appealing dial and sharp case.

 

[ortope]

No, the first time I was asking if a ref. 24.001.xxx movement would be acceptable for a 105.012-66
At the end of my post I asked:

"Would therefore a 25.001.xxx movement be ok for a 105.012 from 1966 in the experts point of view?"

 

[Dan S]

ortope

No, the first time I was asking if a ref. 24.001.xxx movement would be acceptable for a 105.012-66
At the end of my post I asked:

"Would therefore a 25.001.xxx movement be ok for a 105.012 from 1966 in the experts point of view?"

Believe me, I can read. Below is a quote directly from you. Just read your own post. In one of my previous posts, I collected both quotes from you showing the discrepancy. Simply read the thread.

ortope

Thank you for your advice.
By the way I own a 105.012-66 CB with serial 24.440.xxx

 

[ortope]

Sorry, I saw it now, my mistake!

 

[mr_yossarian]

ortope

25.440.xxx

3rd Quarter of 1967 I'd say . An Extract is enough, you don't need the 800 Euro certificate-thing.