Recommend Watch Winder for my 2254.50

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I guess this would be a good experiment to try for myself one day. I'll buy two of the exact same watch. One I'll wear and never use a winder, the other just sits on the winder, and follows the recommended spin. I'll leave it for 5 years, the time usually a watch is needed for maintenance. After 5 years open it up and exam part by part the difference. It's not scientific by any stretch, but it's something that might yield interesting results.


Actually, you and 199 other people should buy 400 of the same watches to get a better sample size. 馃槣
 
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Just to show examples of wear that was from manually winding an ETA 2824 excessively...

Here the main plate has been worn by the sliding pinion - the wear was bad enough that the whole main plate had to be replaced:



Here wear of the barrel bridge from the crown wheel - the crown wheel does not rotate during automatic winding, so this can only happen when winding manually:



I have seen this type of wear on several 2824's that have come into the shop for service.

I've mentioned this before, but if you let your automatic watch run down for 24 hours after taking it off, and then put it on the winder, as long as the winder is set properly there will be no excess wear. The mainspring won't wind enough for the bridle to start slipping in the barrel, and the watch will still be running when you remove it from the winder.

I typically let my autos run down for a day after wearing them, then put them on my winder.

Winders are not the evil thins that some make them out to be.

Cheers, Al
 
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Actually, you and 199 other people should buy 400 of the same watches to get a better sample size. 馃槣

I am willing to sell cheap mechanical watches for this experiment @ only 2x my cost.

Let me know how many you need. The larger the sample size the better.
 
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I am willing to sell cheap mechanical watches for this experiment @ only 2x my cost.

Let me know how many you need. The larger the sample size the better.


It's the winders that will be the issue, cost wise, decent ones at least 馃榿
 
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It's the winders that will be the issue, cost wise, decent ones at least 馃榿


Decent watches should be tested too - over the course of 30 or 40 years. Let's see if we can get Orbita to sponsor this. 馃槈
 
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Let's see if we can get Orbita to sponsor this. 馃槈

It would be in their best interest, I believe.馃槈
 
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Can't agree with that recommendation. Had one of their single winders - it got noisier and noisier after a few months until it died in 3 or 4 years, and I didn't even have it running the whole time.

I have owned a TechSwiss 4 head winder for more than 6 years now and I'd take a look at their line if you want to save a few bucks.

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Just ordered one. Thanks again Dennis!
 
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Thanks for all the feedback! I think I may settle on an Orbita Siena 1 Rotorwind or Programmable in Burl. The Rotorwind "swings" the watch and operates on AC and their proprietary D-Lithium cells as opposed to their Programmable version which operates on AC and 4x C-cells and rotates the watch in a more traditional manner (if I understand it correctly). I may opt for the latter as the Lithium sells are $50 a pop currently w/shipping and the Programmable seems to be more in line with what I need at the moment.

Omega has an informative PDF watch winder fact sheet. The 2254's 1120 movement requires 800 rotations per day (Bidirectional).
 
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This does not make a lot of sense If you really stop to think about it. It does not matter if the winding is done all at once, or done randomly throughout the day. If the winder is set correctly, and is only set to maintain the state of wind, not increase it, then using a winder will not put any "undue stress" on anything.

Certainly if your watch requires say 600 turns per day and you have the winder set for 1800 turns per day, then yes the winder will potentially cause some wear that is not needed. But also remember that the watch on your wrist is very possibly being wound more than it "needs" to be wound in a day. These watches are designed to be wound a lot, so this idea of "undue stress" is a little overblown. Certainly not something I would recommend against.

As a watchmaker I am pretty indifferent to consumer winders. If they are set correctly they are fine and make having a watch ready to go very convenient. It also does save wear and tear on the manual winding parts, and in some cases (depending on the movement) it is preferable to wind using the automatic, for example on an ETA 2824 or 2836 movement. Constant manual winding of these movements can lead to premature wear of the crown wheel boss on the barrel bridge, which is a weak spot.

Cheers, Al


Good Info - where can we find data on the number of TPD and direction needed for different movements to maintain the proper winding, like 7750 or 1164, or 3330 or 2500, or 2824-2 or 2836, etc (all movements I own)?
 
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Al "Archer" or Dennis:

apropos of something or nothing: most watch manufacturers recommend that their watch mainsprings will keep more accurate time if kept wound closer to maximum. Since the only practical way to keep a watch fully wound would be to wind it often (for a winder) or wear it constantly or store it on a properly set watch winder (for an auto) then I'm guessing this isn't a bad practice. I guess my point is that I've never come across any literature from the mechanical engineers who design and build these contraptions cautioning that you'll wear your watch out if you keep her wound up.

I think the only thing which really wears out is the mainspring from metal fatigue? Or, at least a properly serviced watch will go through multiple mainsprings before most other parts "wear out".

is that sort of correct?
 
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Good Info - where can we find data on the number of TPD and direction needed for different movements to maintain the proper winding, like 7750 or 1164, or 3330 or 2500, or 2824-2 or 2836, etc (all movements I own)?

Orbita has their own database but I'm not sure how accurate it is. http://www.orbita.com/database-search/

They have the 1120 listed at 650 TBD whereas Omega's literature (linked above) recommends 800 TBD.
 
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I'm not worried about using one. While at the Omega Boutique getting my Speedy Pro and SMP sized, I asked about winders and they said they have an Omega winder they can sell me for about $600 USD 馃榾. I passed. I finally settled on the Wolf Design 2.7 single winder. Works great! Am really impressed with the quality and how it was packaged. Great value. Thanks all for the help!
 
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Oh BTW, if the 1120 is 800 TPD bi-directional, I assume that setting the winder for 400 turns clockwise and 400 turns counter-clockwise to arrive at 800 TPD is correct?
 
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Al "Archer" or Dennis:

apropos of something or nothing: most watch manufacturers recommend that their watch mainsprings will keep more accurate time if kept wound closer to maximum. Since the only practical way to keep a watch fully wound would be to wind it often (for a winder) or wear it constantly or store it on a properly set watch winder (for an auto) then I'm guessing this isn't a bad practice. I guess my point is that I've never come across any literature from the mechanical engineers who design and build these contraptions cautioning that you'll wear your watch out if you keep her wound up.

I think the only thing which really wears out is the mainspring from metal fatigue? Or, at least a properly serviced watch will go through multiple mainsprings before most other parts "wear out".

is that sort of correct?

Well some basics first. Constant torque from the mainspring is important for good timekeeping, and there are other factors that are all encompassed in the term "isochronosim":



In a nutshell, this is the ability of the oscillator to keep it's period, regardless of the amplitude. So as the number of degrees of rotation of the balance wheel changes, the timekeeping should not. Of course watches are not perfect, so some allowance for rate changes is made.

Now how much difference in timekeeping is there from fully wound, to say 24 hours of run time after fully winding? It depends on the watch of course, but Omega standards for modern watches are a good indication:

The positional variation at full wind, measured over 5 positions on a timing machine should be 12 seconds or less for Omega modern chronometer watches.

At full wind -24 hours (so 24 hours after being fully wound) the positional variation is allowed to be up to 15 seconds. So only 3 seconds difference after 24 hours of running, and no additional winding of the spring.

If you wear a watch during the day, and take it off at night, there should be little variation because of the mainspring running down. So the idea that it has to be almost fully wound to keep time well is not necessarily true.

Now about wear - when the watch is being wound on a winder, or on your wrist, many parts are being moved, and moving parts can wear obviously. The bearing for the rotor is moving, reversing wheels, transmission wheels, barrel arbor, and yes the mainspring is slipping inside the barrel.

Some examples of wear on those parts below. The first one is a worn reversing wheel from an ETA 7750 based watch - new wheel on the left and worn one on the right:



And here wear on the inside of the barrel wall, where the mainspring slips on a Rolex Cal. 1575 - new barrel on the left, and one very worn one on the right where you can see a deep track worn on the inner wall:



Now I replace the mainspring in every watch I service, so the spring getting worn is not really a concern - it will be replaced anyway, but the other parts can add up.

For me I always let my watch run down for 12 or even 24 hours before I put it on the winder. If the winder is set to only maintain the state of wind as it should be, then I will at least be saving the inside barrel wall from the spring slipping all the time.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Al
 
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Hi All,

as the OP this has been fascinating. Some people have quoted the idea of keeping a car engine running all the time, but in some cases, that is a good thing. or at least you take your car out for a spin regularly.

to be honest, all I care about is my dad's 1974 speedmaster Mark iv. I would have thought that decades of inactivity was bad for it, then being suddenly worn twice a week. Should I get a winder for this one, or just wear it and hope for the best, when the mechanism gets suddenly activated after years of 'cold soak'

Paul.