real deal or frankenwatch

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hello friends!
as here are many professionals on omega vintage watches i would like to ask if this one could be real?
couldn't find any similar to this one...
the crystal, crown and movement seem to be original but the rosegold dog leg case and the crosshair dial with arabic numerals throw me a bit off...
any help is appreciated!
 
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Quite genuine. The Arabic numerals while fairly uncommon are legit as is the rose gold.

Lugs are quite soft and the dial is unattractively aged and probably looks worse in person.
 
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What a shame that it’s not in better condition. :(
 
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I think it's legit, but in poor condition. You should probably look around more if you are considering a purchase.
 
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The case seems to have lost its sharp edges and been subjected to too much polishing. Hate to see this. Why don't some people just let the cases be!
 
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how do they actually menage to polish it out that much without removing the gold plating?

here's more photos...
 
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Because it is not gold plating - it is a gold capped case.
A much thicker layer of gold bonded to the case (200 microns IIRC, against 20 microns of typical gold plating)
You can see the thick layer of gold on the side of the lugs in the movt pic posted above.
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Although gold capped cases are generally "softer" than the sharp edged gold and steel versions, this one has seen too much time on the calico wheel.
 
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how do they actually menage to polish it out that much without removing the gold plating?

somewhat thick gold capping / cladding over steel
thick enough to be heavily polished a few times before wearing through

upload_2024-5-21_19-21-32.png
 
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Thank you @Peemacgee and @speedb for your explanation - you acted faster than my shadow in replying!

Also here's more context on why gold capping is way different than plating (and even gold filling): https://www.watchuseek.com/posts/56947829/

i have a vintage longines admiral and it is gold filled, seems to be the best option regarding wear and tear...
but did not know about capping! thanks to everyone for the answers regarding this watch, i will keep looking for better options...

https://www.chrono24.com.hr/omega/constellation-pie-pan-18k-cal564--id33318708.htm

saw this one the other day, massive gold, serviced and the price seems bit low comparing to others... any thoughts?
 
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i have a vintage longines admiral and it is gold filled, seems to be the best option regarding wear and tear...
but did not know about capping! thanks to everyone for the answers regarding this watch, i will keep looking for better options...

https://www.chrono24.com.hr/omega/constellation-pie-pan-18k-cal564--id33318708.htm

saw this one the other day, massive gold, serviced and the price seems bit low comparing to others... any thoughts?

Hey hey, could be nice to open another thread about it with pics uploaded but here we go, my opinion is:
- The dial looks aged and not very well (signs of corrosion as small dots all around)
- Crown looks like a replacement and not an aesthetically pleasing one.
- The case doesn't look too bad. Somewhat sharp edges. But it could've been nicer if seller added more picture of the hallmarks on the caseback. We would also like to see more about the hammer no of the case maker etc. beyond the 18k engraving.

For that price, not sure if it would be a worthy deal.
 
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Hey hey, could be nice to open another thread about it with pics uploaded but here we go, my opinion is:
- The dial looks aged and not very well (signs of corrosion as small dots all around)
- Crown looks like a replacement and not an aesthetically pleasing one.
- The case doesn't look too bad. Somewhat sharp edges. But it could've been nicer if seller added more picture of the hallmarks on the caseback. We would also like to see more about the hammer no of the case maker etc. beyond the 18k engraving.

For that price, not sure if it would be a worthy deal.

You won't get a Swiss hammer mark if that is what you are after as it is a locally cased watch (and doesn't have the finesse of a Swiss/French/English cased Constellation case)
Which is why it is 'inexpensive'.
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i have a vintage longines admiral and it is gold filled, seems to be the best option regarding wear and tear...
but did not know about capping! thanks to everyone for the answers regarding this watch, i will keep looking for better options...

https://www.chrono24.com.hr/omega/constellation-pie-pan-18k-cal564--id33318708.htm

saw this one the other day, massive gold, serviced and the price seems bit low comparing to others... any thoughts?

Please post pics as well as links please.

(and gold capping is a heavier application of gold than gold-filled)
 
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Hey hey friends,
I do not agree with the verdict that the above Constellation, first of this thread,
obviously original, is not worth to be bought.
In every second thread comes the advice: too much polished.. no sharp edges.. pickels on the dial.. service crown..
What do you aspect, the watch is about 60 years old, hopefully it was proudly worn for many years and not held in a drawer. And all the way in a nice shape. Surely the former buyers did want to get the watch polished in case of a service. And did wear the watch proudly. That should be life!
Maybe you guys own the only new old stock items, that we new collectors will never find or would never pay for.
This above mentioned watch is nice, a well preserved movement, a nicely aged dial.., a heritage for the grandchildren..
After a little oil change this watch can be worn for decades elegant and impressing.
What do other collectors think?
⁣Greetings Konrad Knirim
Btw: I would not buy a watch with a non original dial or a non Omega case or a rusted movement... or damaged screws..
And I would not buy the second shown watch due to suspected case???
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Actually I would buy such a watch in a heartbeat. And often do so when I can.
The thing is that I would not pay more than 120USD for it. Preferably 60USD. This is what such watches sold for when I started collecting back in the late 1980s.

I actually like the challenge of rusty watches. Even those missing parts, as I like the hunt for the the missing part.

I spent weeks, months, years learning the processes for case dial repair. This is not as rewarding as seeing the balance start ticking for the first time. It becomes about the anticipation.

I tend to be more of a volume collector. Focusing on the lowest end of these. Someone else is buying them becouse such things so there is competition here as well.

I also notice in collector organizations that there is a desire to be accepted. So a lot of the new members quote the dogma of the older members. There is a rush to quick gratification, so the simple observations become the most repeated.

The same things are true of car and doll collecting. Well loved dolls with all original dolls can be more valuable than MIB dolls. Old ratrods can involk the emotion of the powerful winners of past races.

Watches involve all this as well. The fancy dress watches, down to the reliable mud watches used for sports and event timing.

Watches are also a lot like the milk glass half full thing. For the first 300 years a dropped watch was a broken watch. Then someone came along and created plastic water bottles. So watches (like cars and horse drawn carriages) have shock absorbers. So there is not as much spilled milk as there used to be.
 
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Hi Konrad @kfranzk,

I am afraid I don't agree with your approach and below is why.

Let me begin by emphasising that I myself am far from being an experienced collector. I really enjoy reading and learning from the advice of the people here who gave their valuable time and effort to accumulate a great deal of knowledge - and offering priceless advice to people everyday helping them save hundreds or thousands of whatever currency they would otherwise pay for crappy pieces.

I became particularly interested in watch-hunting at one of the worst possible vintage watch markets in the world, Türkiye, full of frankens, fakes, redials, Handwritten dials, so much polished that you can see the base metal beneath.... kinds of watches. My interest in collecting and managing watches was amplified after losing my father during the pandemic, from whom I inherited many beautiful watches. I was stuck there for years before the restrictions were lifted and I moved back to London. Also had some cash and I was burning inside to get my hands on my favourite Omega's while dealing with many personal matters. And I came across so many bs. Far too many bs. My first posts here would witness my struggle: Golden, redialed, polished, franken Seanasters (what a deadly combo right) that would drain my wallet for nothing. Potentially impossible 'projects' that no watchmaker would dare to handle (hoping that I would revive good deal broken watches)... All in all I would have spent a fortune on pieces which I would remember with eternal regret.

I am so glad that I was turned back many by the people on this forum. Yes, I might have liked them. Yes, I would have been emotionally attached to them. But let's face it, once I would see that these pieces are, though vintage and 60, 70, 100 etc y.o., NOT by any means 'rare' and that there are many sharp, nice examples out there, the spell would've been broken and your heart would be, too. Unless we are talking about T.E.Lawrence's or a special dial/LE Omega, there is way more than one of that right watch that you seek in mostly great condition and for the right amount you would be willing to pay (you may also find info on those rare pieces around the forum). You just need to be patient and know where you need to look for it, starting from the honest ads and trusted sellers on this forum.

And why would (heavily/unevenly) patinated or polished watches are not favoured by myself and many others, besides the non-rarity reasons above? People have different opinions on patina. But especially when uncontrolled, it might be the sign of many issues to come, dial getting oxidated to the level of illegibility, to begin with. Polishing does not only mean removal of valuable gold material, but also makes the watch lose it's outside coating against any environmental impact. Plus, although you may not care about that, the watch would lose its originality and aesthetic features that would be upheld by most veteran collectors anywhere. This is because one of main features that would make these common vintage pieces valuable and standout beauties is the degree to which they were preserved as-is despite the whole world changing around them. Unless you mean to challenge an ages old 'dictation' about the history, conservation and cultural heritage or anything that UNESCO stands for, you need to accept why people stand for such standards. You are more than welcome to get any watch you like of course, but such would be the foundation of the mainstream -and free!!- advice that people would get when they ask the forum's opinion.

A valuable taking for me from here is that the more I learn about watches the more picky but also attuned I become about getting them. I probably pass 2,000+ watch before I get one. One shouldn't rush into fine pleasures like watch collection, if you wish to avoid paying your newbie tax over and over, even though your market is full of crap. I waited for 4 years to get one of my dream watches and now I feel ready to take that leap. This wouldn't be everyone's story, considering that I took a long break after pandemic. But the wait has been worth much more than the rush.

Thank you to anyone who showed the patience of reading this long comment and happy fishing.
 
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What do other collectors think?

Since this is a collectors forum I gave an answer from a collectors perspective, not an attractive watch.

With a little patience there is no need to settle for a watch of this caliber.
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Hey hey friends,
I do not agree with the verdict that the above Constellation, first of this thread,
obviously original, is not worth to be bought.
In every second thread comes the advice: too much polished.. no sharp edges.. pickels on the dial.. service crown..
What do you aspect, the watch is about 60 years old, hopefully it was proudly worn for many years and not held in a drawer. And all the way in a nice shape. Surely the former buyers did want to get the watch polished in case of a service. And did wear the watch proudly. That should be life!
Maybe you guys own the only new old stock items, that we new collectors will never find or would never pay for.
This above mentioned watch is nice, a well preserved movement, a nicely aged dial.., a heritage for the grandchildren..
After a little oil change this watch can be worn for decades elegant and impressing.
What do other collectors think?
⁣Greetings Konrad Knirim
I understand how many old watches came to be in poor condition, but that doesn't mean I want to collect them. I'm happy to be patient and hunt down examples that are well preserved. These are pretty common watches.

There are exceptions, of course. Some watches are so rare, that I would be happy to find a legit example, regardless of condition. Many issued military watches are also in this category, by their nature, they are rarely pristine.
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It depends!
When you want to build up your personal museum of perfect vintage watches, thats one sight.
When you are new here and want to own and wear a nice vintage watch, that may be not perfect, but should be original and not franken and you have limited time to search and limited budget, thats a different sight and equally welcome here!
Konrad