Questions for Watchco SM300 owners

R3D9 · May 29, 2017

From what I've seen, the hand-matching issue isn't very noticible in most lights. The picture I attached to the original post was the most obvious example I could find via my searches on the web.

I've also noticed that the bezel seems to be whiter than the C3 hands and dial, so one way or another, you're looking at some kind of mismatch 😉

I have a no-date model on order and can't wait for it to arrive. I'm hopeful that some of the movement/servicing issues are related to earlier Watchco-built examples.

They now offer a 12-month warranty on watches purchased through them directly, so there's that as well.

The communication from Marcus has been outstanding as well.

R3D9 · Jun 2, 2017

A quick add-on question:

Has anyone tried fitting their modern Speedy Pro bracelet to their Watchco SM300MC?

I've seen a few examples with the 1999/840 attached, but I'm not sure if the current Moonwatch's enlinks are the same or not?

Here is a pic from a post by @mikezz with the 1998/840 attached:

I think it looks pretty sharp.

nlogax · Jun 2, 2017

Archer
Just to clarify about the crown, it's not really sticky and it's not related to the stem, but the crown seal being very tight on the case tube. Not all of them are like this, but some are very tight - if you get one of those it will take time and use to get it to loosen up.

Ah my issue was something to do with rotating / setting the hands: it felt quite gritty. Unrelatedly the crown later also needed some love. I should have been more clear!

bags1971 · Jun 2, 2017

nlogax
It's an incredible watch, but it arrived from WatchCo with the movement in somewhat dubious repair: running 5mins / day fast and a really sticky crown. After a few months the crown pretty much seized up and I had to stop wearing it. Took it into @stefan for a full strip down service (inc new mainspring and new crown) it's been pretty much perfect ever since. That said, he has a fairly low opinion on the general state of repair of the movement (cal 552 no date): it's seen a lot of use. YMMV.

I wore the watch on a Bonetto Cinturini rubber deployant for a while, but then I bought a new 1171/663 bracelet, and that's where it's going to stay...

How do you find the 1171 on yours i have on the shark mesh but thinking og getting one and selling the mesh

nlogax · Jun 3, 2017

@bags1971 it's my favourite bracelet out of the few that I've owned / tried inc Omega: 18mm beads-of-rice, 18mm bricks, current 20mm speedmaster, and various Rolex Oyster-alike link bracelets. It rattles and is medium-light, but fit like a glove and the steel sheen is incredible in all lighting. I'd say it's worth a try, although it's completely different to the mesh!

uwsearch · Jun 10, 2017

I noticed difference in luminova too, I'll have to take a picture of the 4 I currently own (parts from 5-10 years ago).
Here is the last one I got... made out of 2017 replacement dial/hands : same color, same green luminova under UV light:

bags1971 · Jun 10, 2017

mines pretty much uniform lume

R3D9 · Jun 10, 2017

uwsearch
I noticed difference in luminova too, I'll have to take a picture of the 4 I currently own (parts from 5-10 years ago).
Here is the last one I got... made out of 2017 replacement dial/hands : same color, same green luminova under UV light:

Thanks for posting this! Did you buy the last one direct from Watchco? Marcus indicated to me that the more recent dial/hand replacements have been made uniform and it's no longer an issue.

If mine on order ends up looking the same as yours, I'll be a very happy camper 👍

Interestingly, the mismatch might be historically correct given that many of the genuine, vintage SM300's I've seen seem to have developed very different hand and dial colour/patina combinations over the years.

bags1971 · Jun 10, 2017

mine with mint coloured hands

Travelller · Jul 22, 2020

Archer
...there are two dials for the date version. One has C1 lume that is more white, and the other is C3 that is more green. The hands are C3, so what you are seeing is a mismatch...

Old thread but interesting content so I've risked bringing it back up 😗

I just had one made (dial & hands ordered in 2019). I'm under the impression that the slight difference in color is the lume-application thickness, given that the seconds hand matches the markers whereas the hr/min hands appear a bit "richer". My guess is C3 all around, but I'm open to opinions 👍

mr_smith · Jul 23, 2020

Travelller
Old thread but interesting content so I've risked bringing it back up 😗

I just had one made (dial & hands ordered in 2019). I'm under the impression that the slight difference in color is the lume-application thickness, given that the seconds hand matches the markers whereas the hr/min hands appear a bit "richer". My guess is C3 all around, but I'm open to opinions 👍

Wow, I really like that photo. As well as considering the lume-application thickness, the question makes me think of this theory:

"Simultaneous contrast refers to the way in which two different colors affect each other. The theory is that one color can change how we perceive the tone and hue of another when the two are placed side by side. The actual colors themselves don't change, but we see them as altered."

Clearly this is not always going to be the case but possibly something to consider at times? In the photo above could the lume on the hour and minute hands appear different to the seconds hand simply because they're not painted white? I don't know, I'm not an expert on color theory. I find it interesting though that there could be times colors appear one way simply because of the surrounding colors.

Archer · Jul 23, 2020

Travelller
Old thread but interesting content so I've risked bringing it back up 😗

I just had one made (dial & hands ordered in 2019). I'm under the impression that the slight difference in color is the lume-application thickness, given that the seconds hand matches the markers whereas the hr/min hands appear a bit "richer". My guess is C3 all around, but I'm open to opinions 👍

Hello...

Well let's compare the two dials side by side...and tell me if you think your theory is still correct. Note that I took this photo just minutes ago, and the only thing I have done is to increase the black level in this photo - if even slightly overexposed, the colours wash out and look very much alike. I can tell you that this is what they really look like side by side in real life, and the difference is stark to say the least.

There is no difference at all in the amount of lume applied to either dial. If you wish, I can take shots of the dials on edge to prove this, but I think even in this photo you can clearly see the height of the lume on each dial is the same.

The idea that it's the thickness of the lume, or colours surrounding the lume influencing your eye are quickly dispelled when you see these in person next to each other.

Cheers, Al

Archer · Jul 23, 2020

And just because I know someone will doubt that I didn't doctor the photos, here's a video as well...

mr_smith · Jul 23, 2020

Archer
The idea that it's the thickness of the lume, or colours surrounding the lume influencing your eye are quickly dispelled when you see these in person next to each other.

Cheers, Al

Hi Al,

Thanks for posting those. I do not think the theory of surrounding colors influencing the eye are at play here in your photo and video. Ever since coming across that theory (in a search unrelated to watches) I've just considered it an interesting possibility when looking at color, anywhere in life. I thought, maybe something to consider. But as your photo and video show, also something that can be quickly dispelled.

Edit: I feel like I normally do a good job of reading entire threads before commenting, but clearly not here - so this is my facepalm of the day ::facepalm1::

... you posted on page one about C1 and C3 lume on the date dials both being available. Clearly not a simultaneous contrast. Some are whiter and some are greener. I mean come on mr_smith, it was only one more page to read.

Travelller · Jul 23, 2020

Archer
...Well let's compare the two dials side by side...and tell me if you think your theory is still correct. ... There is no difference at all in the amount of lume applied to either dial...

Hi Al, thx very much for your feedback & imagery 👍

I wrote "given that the seconds hand matches the markers whereas the hr/min hands appear a bit richer" because in my pic (of my watch) only the hour and minute hands look to be darker / greener and thus I suggested the hands have more (layers of) paint.

Your two dials are for sure very different - no question about it. Which Superluminova would you say my dial has? C3 is my guess, despite the variation between the (two) hands and dial... 🤔

Last but certainly not least, my macro photos are generally done with long exposure-times (>1s) which allows for "richer" exposures when it comes to stuff like lume 😉

Here's a standard wristshot (1/60s)

p.s. If I may be allowed to sneak in one more topic... date-wheel color; I've seen more black than silver date-wheels but I couldn't find much info as most historical websites concern themselves with the no-date variant... 😵‍💫

Archer · Jul 24, 2020

Travelller
Hi Al, thx very much for your feedback & imagery 👍

I wrote "given that the seconds hand matches the markers whereas the hr/min hands appear a bit richer" because in my pic (of my watch) only the hour and minute hands look to be darker / greener and thus I suggested the hands have more (layers of) paint.

Your two dials are for sure very different - no question about it. Which Superluminova would you say my dial has? C3 is my guess, despite the variation between the (two) hands and dial... 🤔

Last but certainly not least, my macro photos are generally done with long exposure-times (>1s) which allows for "richer" exposures when it comes to stuff like lume 😉

Here's a standard wristshot (1/60s)

p.s. If I may be allowed to sneak in one more topic... date-wheel color; I've seen more black than silver date-wheels but I couldn't find much info as most historical websites concern themselves with the no-date variant... 😵‍💫

Thanks for the reply. You suggested that you believed the colour differences were due to different thicknesses of paint, and used hands as an example of that. If you are saying that your comments were not at all related to the dials, then it was odd that you quoted my previous post, which was specifically about the dials. So if you were only referring to hands, then that certainly wasn't clear to me.

The colour of lume in your hands is the same (as are all the hands for these), so there really is no colour "difference" and as you say, the colour is richer (more concentrated) but not actually a different colour. This of course is related to thickness of the lume, what background colour, if any, may be behind the lume, etc.

As I have mentioned the C1 dials were only found in date models, and all the no date models were C3. Over the last maybe 18-24 months (not keeping track really so it's a guess) all the date dials I have received have been C3 dials. I was sort of expecting that these dials were made by different makers, and possibly that would account for the lume difference but both are the same maker, made at different times...

So I would expect that yours is C3 based on your photos. As for the colour of the date indicator, that has been debated before and I'm not sure there has been any solid conclusion. I think nearly all of the originals sold by Watchco has silver date indicators with black lettering, but they also often used the wrong shape of date indicator (curved rather than the flat style that should be used here), so I don't think that is any real indication that black on silver is correct.

Cheers, Al

SkunkPrince · Jul 24, 2020

I would have sworn mine was all C1 but in the sunlight it’s clearly C3.

Travelller · Jul 24, 2020

Archer
...the colour is richer (more concentrated) but not actually a different colour. This of course is related to thickness of the lume, what background colour, if any, may be behind the lume, etc. ...
...Over the last maybe 18-24 months (not keeping track really so it's a guess) all the date dials I have received have been C3 dials.
...
As for the colour of the date indicator, that has been debated before and I'm not sure there has been any solid conclusion. I think nearly all of the originals sold by Watchco has silver date indicators with black lettering, but they also often used the wrong shape of date indicator (curved rather than the flat style that should be used here), so I don't think that is any real indication that black on silver is correct.

Al, apologies for any confusion I may have caused and thank you once more for the additional feedback on the dials 👍

~~~~

Re. Datewheel... I've seen a few (vintage & "WatchCo") with black background, white lettering like the following example - (one of) your own... 😁

https://omegaforums.net/threads/so-i-decided-to-build-a-watchco-seamaster-300-date.48549/

You indicated that most "WatchCo-style" date-wheels are black on silver which I presume means ordering a date-wheel from Omega today for a 565 mvmt will "default" in the black-on-silver option... .

Is the white-on-black date-wheel still available for a 565 from Omega? 🤔

FYI, mine was built by my watchmaker using 2019-ordered parts but I did not specify the date-wheel color (I was not aware and am still unsure what color Omega used back in the late 60s early 70s see ref. image & website below). Actually I wanted reference-appropriate "baton" hands for the "small triangle" 166.024 but I was informed only the sword hand(s) are still being manufactured by Omega.

Ref. example of a OEM 166.024

image from https://www.omegaseamaster300.com

Archer · Jul 24, 2020

Travelller
You indicated that most "WatchCo-style" date-wheels are black on silver which I presume means ordering a date-wheel from Omega today for a 565 mvmt will "default" in the black-on-silver option... .

No, that's not how ordering parts works. There are many date indicators available in a variety of colours, flat or curved (for different dials), and even with differing orientations. There is no default for the Cal. 565, so you have to look up the specific part number you want, with the specific characteristics you want. and order that.

Travelller
Is the white-on-black date-wheel still available for a 565 from Omega? 🤔

Yes, in flat or curved.

Travelller
FYI, mine was built by my watchmaker using 2019-ordered parts but I did not specify the date-wheel color (I was not aware and am still unsure what color Omega used back in the late 60s early 70s see ref. image & website below). Actually I wanted reference-appropriate "baton" hands for the "small triangle" 166.024 but I was informed only the sword hand(s) are still being manufactured by Omega.

True - no baton hands available, so only the sword hands that all these have.

bigtriangle68 · Jul 24, 2023

Whoever Omega farmed out manufacturing replacement date dials to in the modern era underperformed on the historical accuracy front.

The original 1960s date dials had a stunning curved beveling around the date aperture. But, unfortunately, the modern era luminova date dials have a squared off date aperture window which doesn't maintain the classic original look.

Or perhaps the modern era dials have original curved beveling but it's just the printed white square frame border that is incorrect?

Questions for Watchco SM300 owners

R3D9

R3D9

nlogax

bags1971

nlogax

uwsearch

bags1971

R3D9

bags1971

Travelller

mr_smith

Archer

Archer

mr_smith

Travelller

Archer

SkunkPrince

Travelller

Archer

bigtriangle68

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