Questions about starting a watch business that turned into a social experiment

Foo2rama · Apr 17, 2022

Congrats you made 15% on three watches.

Now try to do this with fast turn around on your inventory so your not locked into inventory costs.

I can argue I’m about plus 100% over the past decade but a lot of that gain is just the market over the past 3-4 years and one piece decided to go insane for no apparent reason.

Also some smart pickups on watches that check all the boxes but had not been “discovered” yet.

I also know how to hunt, how to grade, and have a cheap source of quality service. I know the traps and know which models I can make correct judgements on and which ones I am not sufficiently versed in.

Any pieces I decide to go into requires about a 6 month research process and then hunting…

most importantly I know what I don’t know and will not fall into the traps that so many people I have seen try to do what your proposing.

no one is but hurt at all, your refusal to listen to anyone that doesn’t tell you to go ahead and do it is quite stupendous. Your confusing people telling you the truth in opposition to your limited knowledge as being upset.

But sure name 5 watches you can grade and source under market consistently to make money.

Do you have a cheap source of service for these pieces? You need this to flip and make money.

your wanting to be a grey market is laughable. The guys doing it are not going to tell you how they source pieces and allow you to cannabalize thier sales.

immmhus · Apr 17, 2022

Foo2rama
Congrats you made 15% on three watches.

Now try to do this with fast turn around on your inventory so your not locked into inventory costs.

I’m can argue I’m about plus 100% over the past decade but a lot of that gain is just the market over the past 3-4 years and one piece decided to go insane for no apparent reason.

Also some smart pickups on watches that check all the boxes but had not been “discovered” yet.

I also know how to hunt, how to grade, and have a cheap source of quality service. I know the traps and know which models I can make correct judgements on and which ones I am not sufficiently versed in.

Any pieces I decide to go into requires about a 6 month research process and then hunting…

most importantly I know what I don’t know and will not fall into the traps that so many people I have seen try to do what your proposing.

no one is but hurt at all, your refusal to listen to anyone that doesn’t tell you to go ahead and do it is the quote stupendous. Your confusing people telling you the truth in opposition to your limited knowledge as being upset.

But sure name 5 watches you can grade and source under market consistently to make money.

Do you have a cheap source of service if of pieces? You need this to flip.

your wanting to be a grey market is laughable. The guys doing it are not going to tell you how they source pieces and allow you to cannabalize thier sales.

Mate I'm not against you. Cut it out. Sheesh it's like you think I'm trying to break into your house or you think you have a monopoly on the market. That is laughable.

Honestly I'm glad you've made 100% on your watches congratulations. Your proof it can be done, it's not easy but it can be done.

Jeepers regret.

Watch my Whisky · Apr 17, 2022

Have you run a business of any type before? Was it successful?

Great, now double the effort, halve the margin, and multiply the headaches. Voila, you’re in the watch business.

immmhus · Apr 17, 2022

Watch my Whisky
Have you run a business of any type before? Was it successful?

Great, now double the effort, halve the margin, and multiply the headaches. Voila, you’re in the watch business.

Haha this made me laugh.

We will just invest all this money annnddd its gone.

Wlcutter · Apr 17, 2022

immmhus
Mate I'm not against you. Cut it out. Sheesh it's like you think I'm trying to break into your house or you think you have a monopoly on the market. That is laughable.

Honestly I'm glad you've made 100% on your watches congratulations. Your proof it can be done, it's not easy but it can be done.

Jeepers regret.

It may not be that you're against anyone, but, intentionally or not, you're acting awfully cavalier about all of this.

People have asked for specifics, which you've not answered. Your posts make it seem as if you think this is easy, or not a big deal. Everyone's trying to say: sure, it's doable, but it's really, really time-intensive, and you have to know *phenomenal* amounts of data—i.e. it's a *big deal* in terms of time, attention, dedication. @Foo2rama is right about how much work it takes to research just specific *references* (not brands), and unlike in lots of fields, in watches, being 99% right or being 100% wrong often earn the exact same amount.

15% return is feasible depending, again, on effort, brands/models, and clients. Lots of people here either have, or know someone who has, made more. But, again, the point is: it's seriously hard. By way of illustration, check @t_swiss_t 's work on just *two* Rolex references, or @Spacefruit 's page on *the Speemaster*. You sound—again, intentionally or not—really cavalier about a topic people have spent *years* working at. Which is the biggest thing to remember, here and elsewhere: whatever you end up knowing about watches, remember that you learned it from someone, somewhere. Unless you've got relatives working in the manufactures, everything you'll ever know about the biggest brands is from dedicated, generous collectors (i.e. the folks here).

watchyouwant · Apr 17, 2022

immmhus
There is nothing to forgive if you're not annoyed by the actions, I would feel embarrassed for them if that's the way they want to treat anyone else. 😜

A Couple of the responses I got,part sounded like they came from fatigued people as mentioned yes but if you look at any successful business that fatigue will come at a price.

At the end of the day everything is a risk, ever company will go into a competitive market and every company will take loses for a while. But would you rather shovel shit or sell watches, I know which one I'd rather do. 😀

Shoveling Shit/ disposal of waste is a very lucrative business. Let others do the shoveling and you reap the rewards. THAT is a business model. Private Shit owners: Cash. Business customers: Be 10% cheaper than your cheapest competitor. Easy. No repairs. No searching for parts. No dealing with Lunatics, who expect everything remotely possible without wanting to pay for it. No PayPal fees. No eBay fees and blocking your payments until you refund the buyer. Fees. Taxes. And a trillion other obstacles. Fine, if you are a collector and found your dream watch. A Nightmare, if you sell and want a living out of that. Profit margins before taxes ? Vintage Rolex around 10% . New Rolex flippers with 80% profit ? You will not get into that market. Many other Brands 15% . And with a LOT of knowledge and a good watchmaker to fix things, you can buy broken watches, that everybody wants, fix them and book 50% profit. Might take a year, to get to that stage because of searching for the right parts....So, deep pockets required for Micky mouse gains. Good luck.

Donn Chambers · Apr 17, 2022

immmhus
If you're asking me, and I'm hesitant to answer as I am the original poster. I personally have seen profits on the watches I HAVE SOLD. (had to make that clear my experience). I don't think 15% on your investment is out of the question.

Now all these people are going to say oh you need to look out for this look out for that take into mind import charges freight charges tax on your earnings the cost of auction fees, buyers remorse loss of stock due to poor buying techniques, getting ripped off, finding the right sellers and buyers etc. Yes I know all of these factors but I will only learn more by asking a question, and Im getting burnt at the steak for doing that. I have still seen profits if you have the capital to sit on a watch for a while or you may put it at a price point for it to move and make a smaller profit but move more merchandise.

Long answer short, I would expect around 15k from 100k in sales if everything where to go smoothly.

Yes this business is not easy, but nothing should be impossible.

Sure, nothing is impossible. Lots of YouTube channels are making money in the watch market, by promoting their sales sites, doing reviews, hawking products people want (e.g., straps). What are you doing, other than asking for advice on a watch forum? My advice (and I’ve lost money on almost every watch I flipped, so take my advice with a grain of salt) is try to get a social media presence on your favorite platform and see what happens. But don’t invest money you can’t afford to lose.

Doing it on a watch forum is about 20 years too late.

immmhus · Apr 17, 2022

OK here's a question for everyone. and before you all call me cavalier and naive or rambunctious, im not comparing myself in any way to these business or business owners.

What's your thoughts on businesses like hodinkee, pride and pinion, Teddy baldassare?

Hodinkee has 608 videos on YouTube, that'd be 304 years of knowledge collectively if they research models for 6 months a piece. I'm obviously estimating that all these videos are about watches of different calibres, maybe some videos are doubled up maybe some of the talking watches have several different references.

Pride and pinion have a sell my watch feature on their website, do you think they have dedicated teams who spend 6 months on each different reference and make a profit at the end of the day.

Once again before I get attacked. I'm not comparing myself towards these people and respect that they have alot more knowledge of the watch industry than me.

dsio · Apr 17, 2022

immmhus
OK here's a question for everyone. and before you all call me cavalier and naive or rambunctious, im not comparing myself in any way to these business or business owners.

What's your thoughts on businesses like hodinkee, pride and pinion, Teddy baldassare?

Hodinkee has 608 videos on YouTube, that'd be 304 years of knowledge collectively if they research models for 6 months a piece. I'm obviously estimating that all these videos are about watches of different calibres, maybe some videos are doubled up maybe some of the talking watches have several different references.

Pride and pinion have a sell my watch feature on their website, do you think they have dedicated teams who spend 6 months on each different reference and make a profit at the end of the day.

Once again before I get attacked. I'm not comparing myself towards these people and respect that they have alot more knowledge of the watch industry than me.

HODINKEE is a $100M company that Kevin Rose tipped 10s of millions into years ago. I’ve never even heard of the other one you mention.

immmhus · Apr 17, 2022

dsio
HODINKEE is a $100M company that Kevin Rose tipped 10s of millions into years ago. I’ve never even heard of the other one you mention.

YouTube.

dsio · Apr 17, 2022

immmhus
YouTube.

Beach ball.

immmhus · Apr 17, 2022

dsio
Beach ball.

A puma cub.

Omega D · Apr 17, 2022

immmhus
Hi there,

Long time member, small time poster.

Ive found enjoyment in the hobby of horology and am dabbling with the idea of buying and selling watches so that. 1. I can wear them in the meantime 2. Make it economically viable to do so without me laying under the bridge.

I have just sold a Speedmaster and have broken even but with the deal I made with a supplier of mine I brought 2 watches and got a third lower end well known brand watch for free.

I was wondering if we had any grey market sales people on here who would be able to share their experiences with this endeavour.

Have you made a living buying and selling watches?
what sort of profit margins would you usually aim for?
What's your initial investment in the watches?
Do you actually make any money on these or is all the profit made from social media or YouTube or fixing watches?

I'm starting to learn this is a tricky business importing and exporting watches and we have all probably tried to give it a crack at one time or another.

Watch Paul Thorpe utube channel

STANDY · Apr 17, 2022

Have been a member here for many years and have seen nearly 20 members start off as a pseudo dealers and are now banned due to unscrupulous activity and couldn’t take a loss and got greedy.
Some were well known members that $$s got the better of them.

Flipping a few watches here and there is common but trying to turn profit time and time again is hard work and requires alot of $$s

Hodinkee was once respectful as a magazine and offered advise like “Never buy a vintage watch without seeing the movement shot” to selling vintage pieces without movement shots.
Being a seller of MSRP watches is why they are so cashed up now. Not by flipping watches or there vintage / resales items.

Plenty of dealers like “shuck the oyster” (fu🤬k the oyster, I call them) …. But I wouldn’t buy a watch from them. These are the guys that prey on the I’ll informed big wallet, time poor newer collectors.

Watch my Whisky · Apr 17, 2022

dsio
HODINKEE is a $100M company that Kevin Rose tipped 10s of millions into years ago. I’ve never even heard of the other one you mention.

Exactly.

Hodinkee is backed by John Mayer, LVMH Luxury Ventures, Chermin Group, Tom Brady and some other people / entities with deep, deep pockets.

Foo2rama · Apr 17, 2022

immmhus
OK here's a question for everyone. and before you all call me cavalier and naive or rambunctious, im not comparing myself in any way to these business or business owners.

What's your thoughts on businesses like hodinkee, pride and pinion, Teddy baldassare?

Hodinkee has 608 videos on YouTube, that'd be 304 years of knowledge collectively if they research models for 6 months a piece. I'm obviously estimating that all these videos are about watches of different calibres, maybe some videos are doubled up maybe some of the talking watches have several different references.

Pride and pinion have a sell my watch feature on their website, do you think they have dedicated teams who spend 6 months on each different reference and make a profit at the end of the day.

Once again before I get attacked. I'm not comparing myself towards these people and respect that they have alot more knowledge of the watch industry than me.

Apparently you don’t know how they started and how long it took them to get there. They also have a very large highly knowledgeable staff. You think they then got this big without massive outside investment?

they have been on a path for over 15 years to get where they are now and even then they had massive external cash infusions. Also they don’t make their money from vintage watch sales, in all honesty they never really have. But apparently you didn’t know this.

but sure my metric of 6 months is doing it on my own time while working full time. Hodinkee started as a website building content and doing deep dives with interviews of experts for years. Then they dipped thier toes in sales by doing small curated collection pop ups at various high end department stores.

only after building the brand where they able to sell watches at a markup because of their brand. A much better example would be the original analogue shift or Bobs.

The other guys make money from the brand and influencing not watch sales.

immmhus · Apr 17, 2022

Shabbaz · Apr 17, 2022

Dan S
I'm curious about how much you think this hypothetical seller would typically have invested in inventory on an ongoing basis. $100k? $200k?

I really dont know Dan. But to make a serious living out of it where you can put your kids to college, pay your mortgage, phone, insurances, taxes, ex-wives, dogs and cats and everything else, I would assume with 100k you still have small money at the end of the year.

Shabbaz · Apr 17, 2022

immmhus
Hey 17k a year is good isn't it, for doing something that brings you joy atleast.

Well, of course 17k is a lot of money. But for me that's not a real business model. I can not live from 17k a year. My dog costs 17k a year. I should have bought that chihuahua.

cristos71 · Apr 17, 2022

Shabbaz
Well, of course 17k is a lot of money. But for me that's not a real business model. I can not live from 17k a year. My dog costs 17k a year. I should have bought that chihuahua.

That's NL for you!