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Pointer Hand on this Ref. 5412

  1. kree Aug 20, 2020

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    Hi all,

    I haven't seen too many examples of Ref. 5412, but does the pointer hand on the watch below appear to be a replacement?

    [​IMG]

    Comparing to the examples below (first one from Phillips), the pointer hand above appears to be too long.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Radiumpassion Aug 20, 2020

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    I think it is too long, but I`m not so familiar with this reference.

    Maybe @DirtyDozen12 knows?
     
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  3. BlueHands Aug 20, 2020

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    Yes, a bit too long. At all the watches I've seen so far the red tip did not end upon the date numerals.
    Sorry have to edit. At this example the hand is also a bit longer as it seems.
    [​IMG]
     
    Edited Aug 20, 2020
  4. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Aug 20, 2020

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    As it turns out, early examples of reference 5412 have long, pointer hands that partially cover the date. This "issue" was rectified on later examples. The watch in question is from, what is likely to be, the first order of reference 5412 (22'739). See another example from this order below.

    However, the watch is not without its problems. Firstly, the minute hand is too long. Secondly, I believe that the crown is incorrect. It looks like a Longines crown from the period, but I believe that this reference should come with a larger one. Thirdly, the pusher looks like a replacement. See a comparison below. Fourthly, the lugs look quite damaged, as seen from the back. Finally, there is the pink dial. I am somewhat suspicious of these pink dials as they are always in perfect condition, despite the condition of the rest of the watch. The printing is very good so maybe they were produced by Longines with a dual purpose: some for production watches and others kept as spare parts? I lack sufficient evidence at this time.

    frank.JPG
    upload_2020-8-20_12-11-47.png
    upload_2020-8-20_12-12-56.png
    [​IMG]
    upload_2020-8-20_12-11-14.png
     
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  5. airansun In the shuffling madness Aug 20, 2020

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    I’d need to see OP’s posted watch and the Phillips watch in hand before I’d buy it. There’s something about that dial that makes me uncomfortable, but despite studying the photos, I can’t put my finger on what it is that suggests a refinished dial. Obviously, if it is refinished, it was done to a high quality.
     
  6. kree Aug 20, 2020

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    Appreciate all the responses everyone (especially @DirtyDozen12 for the detailed analysis) - these exercises are always helpful in sharpening the collective knowledge.

    Regarding the length of minute hands, is it the case that some original hands do indeed extend past the outermost ring on the dial (if applicable)?

    Some examples:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  7. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Aug 21, 2020

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    Short answer, yes. I have seen original (looking) examples of time-only Longines with minute hands that slightly overshoot the outer minute track or markers. But, these are exceptions to the rule. The hand length on the second example above looks fine, to me. The first one is also probably fine too, though the tip of the minute hand looks damaged. I wonder if it could have been imperfectly repaired? As a final note, I will say that the issue of hand length is particularly pertinent for chronographs. These dials often have scales (e.g. tachymeter, telemeter, etc.) that are outside of the minute track and minute hands should not reach these.
     
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  8. Modest_Proposal Trying too hard to be one of the cool kids Aug 22, 2020

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    I will note that a very similar or identical hour and minute handset has been seen on a watch of the same caliber.

    I believe the hour hand of the OP's watch has been chipped at the end.
     
    1042763-f7ff7c904350e1e7a466686d584bdcd0.jpg longines-calendar-original-1944-ref-5412-steel-watch-cal-1268zq.jpg
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  9. MOL Aug 28, 2021

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    EFCA29E2-935C-4761-AEF9-00D2B72BB281.jpeg E45F9A0A-8F47-4F52-8278-FF6CB3B52D62.jpeg Big gamble on this one today…will be back with better pics when arrives…how rare is this ref?
     
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  10. bhoboo Aug 28, 2021

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    I am curious what is the case size? 33mm or 35.5mm?
     
  11. Modest_Proposal Trying too hard to be one of the cool kids Aug 28, 2021

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    Yes, these are very uncommon. @DirtyDozen12 is an authority on early calendar models. Judging from the crude photo, my impression is that it's all original, with slight dial damage. But it should clean up well.
     
  12. MOL Aug 28, 2021

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    It is supposed to be 35mm…lets see when it arrives
     
  13. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Aug 30, 2021

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    The crown and crystal look replaced, otherwise it looks good. As @Modest_Proposal stated, these are quite uncommon. I look forward to seeing more photos when it arrives.
     
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  14. MOL Jan 1, 2022

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    Picture of the watch, finally. Ticks much to fast so guess greeze on hairspring (tried to ”de-magnetize”). Need to go to service. I have not engaged with the watch yet so have not been thinking whats next…am happy with it but the dial damage is evident and a bit annoying F0EBC609-B801-4418-9757-2F4E809E2AF0.jpeg
     
    Edited Jan 2, 2022
  15. fbf Jan 4, 2022

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    beautiful watch regardless.
     
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  16. CHRONOZEN Feb 23, 2022

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    I try since 8 years to get a dial for this ref5412 I can offer a 14k piping rock hamilton 1929 white gold for this dial or other watch PLEASE IF ANY PERSON CAN HAVE THIS INFORMATION LET ME KNOW,because here in montreal i try to redonne but is badly redonne.so a genuine one or a redonne perfectly redonne THANK YOU
     
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  17. CHRONOZEN Feb 23, 2022

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    Gold HAMILTON FOR GENUINE DIAL JUST TO BE CLEAR.SORRY