Pointer Hand on this Ref. 5412

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kree

·Aug 20, 2020

Hi all,

I haven't seen too many examples of Ref. 5412, but does the pointer hand on the watch below appear to be a replacement?



Comparing to the examples below (first one from Phillips), the pointer hand above appears to be too long.



Any thoughts?

 

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Radiumpassion

·Aug 20, 2020

I think it is too long, but I`m not so familiar with this reference.

Maybe @DirtyDozen12 knows?

 

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BlueHands

·Aug 20, 2020

Yes, a bit too long. At all the watches I've seen so far the red tip did not end upon the date numerals.
Sorry have to edit. At this example the hand is also a bit longer as it seems.

Edited: Aug 20, 2020

 

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DirtyDozen12

·Aug 20, 2020

As it turns out, early examples of reference 5412 have long, pointer hands that partially cover the date. This "issue" was rectified on later examples. The watch in question is from, what is likely to be, the first order of reference 5412 (22'739). See another example from this order below.

However, the watch is not without its problems. Firstly, the minute hand is too long. Secondly, I believe that the crown is incorrect. It looks like a Longines crown from the period, but I believe that this reference should come with a larger one. Thirdly, the pusher looks like a replacement. See a comparison below. Fourthly, the lugs look quite damaged, as seen from the back. Finally, there is the pink dial. I am somewhat suspicious of these pink dials as they are always in perfect condition, despite the condition of the rest of the watch. The printing is very good so maybe they were produced by Longines with a dual purpose: some for production watches and others kept as spare parts? I lack sufficient evidence at this time.

 

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airansun

·Aug 20, 2020

DirtyDozen12

Finally, there is the pink dial. I am somewhat suspicious of these pink dials as they are always in perfect condition, despite the condition of the rest of the watch. The printing is very good so maybe they were produced by Longines with a dual purpose: some for production watches and others kept as spare parts? I lack sufficient evidence at this time.

I’d need to see OP’s posted watch and the Phillips watch in hand before I’d buy it. There’s something about that dial that makes me uncomfortable, but despite studying the photos, I can’t put my finger on what it is that suggests a refinished dial. Obviously, if it is refinished, it was done to a high quality.

 

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kree

·Aug 20, 2020

Appreciate all the responses everyone (especially @DirtyDozen12 for the detailed analysis) - these exercises are always helpful in sharpening the collective knowledge.

Regarding the length of minute hands, is it the case that some original hands do indeed extend past the outermost ring on the dial (if applicable)?

Some examples:

 

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DirtyDozen12

·Aug 21, 2020

K kree

Regarding the length of minute hands, is it the case that some original hands do indeed extend past the outermost ring on the dial (if applicable)?

Short answer, yes. I have seen original (looking) examples of time-only Longines with minute hands that slightly overshoot the outer minute track or markers. But, these are exceptions to the rule. The hand length on the second example above looks fine, to me. The first one is also probably fine too, though the tip of the minute hand looks damaged. I wonder if it could have been imperfectly repaired? As a final note, I will say that the issue of hand length is particularly pertinent for chronographs. These dials often have scales (e.g. tachymeter, telemeter, etc.) that are outside of the minute track and minute hands should not reach these.

 

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Modest_Proposal

·Aug 22, 2020

I will note that a very similar or identical hour and minute handset has been seen on a watch of the same caliber.

I believe the hour hand of the OP's watch has been chipped at the end.

 

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MOL

·Aug 28, 2021

Big gamble on this one today…will be back with better pics when arrives…how rare is this ref?

 

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bhoboo

·Aug 28, 2021

I am curious what is the case size? 33mm or 35.5mm?

 

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Modest_Proposal

·Aug 28, 2021

M MOL

Big gamble on this one today…will be back with better pics when arrives…how rare is this ref?

Yes, these are very uncommon. @DirtyDozen12 is an authority on early calendar models. Judging from the crude photo, my impression is that it's all original, with slight dial damage. But it should clean up well.

 

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MOL

·Aug 28, 2021

It is supposed to be 35mm…lets see when it arrives

 

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DirtyDozen12

·Aug 30, 2021

The crown and crystal look replaced, otherwise it looks good. As @Modest_Proposal stated, these are quite uncommon. I look forward to seeing more photos when it arrives.

 

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MOL

·Jan 1, 2022

Picture of the watch, finally. Ticks much to fast so guess greeze on hairspring (tried to ”de-magnetize”). Need to go to service. I have not engaged with the watch yet so have not been thinking whats next…am happy with it but the dial damage is evident and a bit annoying

Edited: Jan 2, 2022

 

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fbf

·Jan 4, 2022

beautiful watch regardless.

 

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CHRONOZEN

·Feb 23, 2022

I try since 8 years to get a dial for this ref5412 I can offer a 14k piping rock hamilton 1929 white gold for this dial or other watch PLEASE IF ANY PERSON CAN HAVE THIS INFORMATION LET ME KNOW,because here in montreal i try to redonne but is badly redonne.so a genuine one or a redonne perfectly redonne THANK YOU

 

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CHRONOZEN

·Feb 23, 2022

Gold HAMILTON FOR GENUINE DIAL JUST TO BE CLEAR.SORRY