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Pocket watches from 1900-1920 durability

mseamaster
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Recently I got interested in such watches since some can be found for cheap. I don't have any yet.(will post pics when I obtain one for sure)

Anyway it got me wondering - how can it survive 100 years without servicing and shock protection?

Is it survivor bias - meaning most of them perished but a select few survived.

I've also read that in that era, a lot of stuff was handmade and parts often didn't match between watches of the same model. Meaning tolerances couldn't have been very good either.

My other theory is that these watches were maybe not used much after say the 40s. Meaning people switched to wristwatches so most pocket watches just stayed in boxes.
 
TIMElyBehaviour
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Pocket watches would go in to have staffs replaced when impact occurred. Over time they went out of vogue, only a few owners wear them daily, but not many. There are a tonne of great pieces to collect from awesome brands that some are still producing watches today.
Were they more durable? Nope. Modern watches (1950’ till now) started coming with shock protection. A lot of high end brands also capped the escape wheel as well for good measure.
Other upgrades were acrylic crystals to prevent dial damage.
 
Archer
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mseamaster mseamaster
Anyway it got me wondering - how can it survive 100 years without servicing and shock protection?

Mostly from not being used, but if the watch is worn in a pocket with a chain to help keep it from hitting the floor when it slips from your hand, that helps too.

Pocket watches tend to have larger and heavier balances than wrist watches do, but the pivots on the balance are not much different. This means that balance staffs were broken quite often, and some companies designed for this. Instead of riveting the staff in place, it was friction fitted into the balance, so much more easily replaced.

Depending on the era, many of them have fully interchangeable parts, so no hand made parts or hand fitted parts. If you were looking to get one, many of the American made watches are excellent. The Swiss actually used to make fake versions of the American watches...
 
Waltesefalcon
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I wear pocket watches frequently. American watches from the last couple of decades of the ninteenth century to WWII are some of the best ever made.

Machines that are well made will last for decades or even centuries if they are maintained. If you look for a quality watch that has been maintained you'll have a watch that is capable of easily outliving you.

This is my 1903 Hamilton 940 that I've been wearing for a bit over a week. I just checked it against the Naval Observatory, which is what I set it by eight days ago, and it is 23 seconds off.

20240815_100455.jpg
 
TIMElyBehaviour
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Bunns specials are also a very collectable make.

Waltham, Elgin, Hamilton, zenith, omega are very collectable too. I love old pocket watches for their detail engraving. Beautiful.
 
Canuck
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Many people think that the very size of the pocket watch relative to the size of a wrist watch (maybe 4 or 5 times larger) would mean it would be 4 or 5 stronger! Exactly the opposite is true. They are durable, but NOT rugged! They will survive USE but not ABUSE!
 
mseamaster
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Hm, interesting. Another question in mind - since some pocket watches could be found for cheap and they are bigger, should I try buying some just to learn watchmaking on them?

Would the skill translate well to wristwatches?

I wonder if anyone else learned like that. Old pocket watches seem simpler at a glance mechanically too. But that could be misleading.
 
Archer
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If your ultimate goal is to work on wrist watches, then I would suggest starting to learn on an ETA 6497 or a clone of that movement. It’s pocket watch sized but is more like a wrist watch in its construction. Some pocket watches have very different winding and setting systems than wrist watches do, as well as other quirks. The 6497 is a perfect movement to start on, which is why most watchmaking schools use it.
 
mseamaster
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Archer Archer
If your ultimate goal is to work on wrist watches, then I would suggest starting to learn on an ETA 6497 or a clone of that movement. It’s pocket watch sized but is more like a wrist watch in its construction. Some pocket watches have very different winding and setting systems than wrist watches do, as well as other quirks. The 6497 is a perfect movement to start on, which is why most watchmaking schools use it.
Thanks.

My ultimate goal is to learn to service my Seikos, constrained in years to the 60s and 70s.

I will look up this movement for sure since you recommended it.

Btw assuming I get one and service it, how would I know I did it right? After all it would be brand new anyway.

Obviously I don't need a case, but what about dials and hands? Could I get just any dial and hands or does it have to match?
 
ghce
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Let AliExpress be your friend, lots of them cloned or original for cheap.
 
mseamaster
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ghce ghce
Let AliExpress be your friend, lots of them cloned or original for cheap.
Thanks. Good point. I will get a clone.

But how would I know if I serviced it correctly though? My idea is to disassemble, clean every part with ultrasonic cleaner, reassemble and oil. Assuming it works afterwards, what would indicate I messed up?
 
DaveK
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ghce ghce
Let AliExpress be your friend, lots of them cloned or original for cheap.

AliExpress sells legit items?
 
Archer
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mseamaster mseamaster
Thanks. Good point. I will get a clone.

But how would I know if I serviced it correctly though? My idea is to disassemble, clean every part with ultrasonic cleaner, reassemble and oil. Assuming it works afterwards, what would indicate I messed up?

You need to get a timing machine, learn how to use it, and learn what good results look like.

Having it run again isn’t any kind of indication...
 
mseamaster
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Archer Archer
You need to get a timing machine, learn how to use it, and learn what good results look like.

Having it run again isn’t any kind of indication...
Would the result of a timing machine prove I did good? Say if I under or over oil it?

DaveK DaveK
AliExpress sells legit items?
There are some nice watch related items on Ali as far I have bought. But they aren't extremely cheap. My case opener is a clone but it works fine. And I bought a nice hand press (certainly nicely built), but I need time to learn to use it.
 
JimInOz
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I second Al's choice for a learning model, but I'd steer clear of the Chinese copies.
The ETA produced movements are of higher quality regarding dimensional tolerances etc so assembling the trains for example is easier as the wheels sit where they should, not wobbling around the place.

Here's one I finished earlier.

FOC_2.JPG In_4_6498.JPG
 
mseamaster
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JimInOz JimInOz
I second Al's choice for a learning model, but I'd steer clear of the Chinese copies.
The ETA produced movements are of higher quality regarding dimensional tolerances etc so assembling the trains for example is easier as the wheels sit where they should, not wobbling around the place.

Here's one I finished earlier.

FOC_2.JPG In_4_6498.JPG
Thanks. I will probably get a non-clone then. Maybe a CYMA.

Btw what about over/under oiling? How would you know if it's oiled right after assembly?
 
JimInOz
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Simplistically, if you can see the oil, it's probably too much.
I use a large tip oiler to get oil from the pot, and then a Bergeon black oiler (fine tip) to dip from the big oiler and apply to the jewel.
You can get an idea of how much you are putting on your oiler by practising oil placement on a piece of glass or metal.
 
Archer
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mseamaster mseamaster
Btw what about over/under oiling? How would you know if it's oiled right after assembly?

Start here...

https://omegaforums.net/threads/basic-watchmaking-tips-oiling-part-1.62310/

I have posted an entire series of tips for beginners. They all start with “basic watchmaking tips” and all are posted in the watchmaking section.

Actually you should start with the very first post in that series, on cleaning. Unless you clean the movement properly, how you oil it won’t be all that critical.

Once you have read all those, feel free to ask about anything you don’t understand or need clarification on...
 
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