PO 2500 Check

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Does it even matter if it’s a C or D? I thought that when these were serviced any needed changes in the C were made, essentially making it a D. Given this watch is 15 yrs old, I’m hoping it’s been serviced.

No, the C is not upgraded to be a D.
 
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No, the C is not upgraded to be a D.

That’s not what I said. A C is a C.

However there are fixes identified for those Cs with issues and those fixes are applied at Omega servicing making the C essentially as reliable as a D. That is, assuming a C ever had a problem.
 
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That’s not what I said. A C is a C.

Okay this is very poorly worded then:

I thought that when these were serviced any needed changes in the C were made, essentially making it a D

To "essentially make it a D" it would have to be converted from the less reliable 2-level co-axial escapement to the much more reliable 3-level co-axial escapement. The only movement to get the conversion from 2-level to 3-level is the 3313. I've actually done this conversion myself.

However there are fixes identified for those Cs with issues and those fixes are applied at Omega servicing making the C essentially as reliable as a D. That is, assuming a C ever had a problem.

There are a lot of "non believers" out there, and I wish you all could have been with me in the training at Omega where these issues were discussed at length...
 
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I wish I could have been in there as well. It would have been very interesting.

I should have worded my statement better, for sure, but I meant that the 2500C (after Omega servicing) is a very reliable movement. If that's incorrect I'd like to know. When I was shopping around for a 2500 version of a PO in the 42mm size I was told by two of your colleagues that I shouldn't put too much into the C vs. D argument if the watch has been serviced.
 
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I wish I could have been in there as well. It would have been very interesting.

I should have worded my statement better, for sure, but I meant that the 2500C (after Omega servicing) is a very reliable movement. If that's incorrect I'd like to know. When I was shopping around for a 2500 version of a PO in the 42mm size I was told by two of your colleagues that I shouldn't put too much into the C vs. D argument if the watch has been serviced.
2500c is very reliable. It just doesn't become a D after servicing. My previous 2500C was super accurate and reliable.
 
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I wish I could have been in there as well. It would have been very interesting.

I should have worded my statement better, for sure, but I meant that the 2500C (after Omega servicing) is a very reliable movement. If that's incorrect I'd like to know. When I was shopping around for a 2500 version of a PO in the 42mm size I was told by two of your colleagues that I shouldn't put too much into the C vs. D argument if the watch has been serviced.

Here is the upgrade kit for the 3313 so you know what an upgrade would actually look like:



It includes a new base plate with the new caliber designation under the balance, a new co-axial wheel, and a new intermediate wheel:



There is no kit like this for the 2500. There are 4 variations of the 2500, so the A, B, C, and D. A through C are the 2-level escapement design, and D is the 3-level. So the D doesn't need upgrading, and that leaves the other three.

The 2-level design tries to incorporate two functions into the teeth of the intermediate escape wheel, and the upper co-axial wheel teeth. This results in a very odd shape for the teeth, and it is this shape that caused the sticky black residue to accumulate, and this residue would stop the watches prematurely.

This is what that residue looks like:



Omega tried a lot of different things to solve this, including varying lubrication changes, and for one of the three 2-level variants (the C) they changed the coating that was on the intermediate escape wheel. But they didn't change it on the other 2, and that tells me that the coating wasn't really the solution or they would have made the same change on the A and B. There aren't many A's out there, but there are a ton of B's, mostly in Aqua Terra models.

So the "final" result of all their efforts is to the intermediate escape wheel treated with epilame, and every single tooth on that wheel is oiled with an oil that I don't use for any other application. So the escapement that doesn't need oil, has a total of 20 teeth on the intermediate escape wheel that get oiled, plus 10 more on the co-axial wheel (all 8 lower teeth, and 2 of the upper teeth).

So did this "solve" the problem? IMO no it didn't, because even after this the wheels still have residue on them, and this is a problem of geometry. But it appears to have delayed this from causing an issue during a normal service interval, so practically you can say it does I guess. The 2-level was initially chosen because it takes up less space (height), but Omega has abandoned it completely due to this problem, and all current escapements are the 3-level design.

So asking if it is "reliable or unreliable" isn't the right question in my view. The question is, is it more or less reliable than the current 3-level co-axial escapement - in my view it is less reliable than the 3-level designs. The issue was mitigated by the changes Omega made to the lubrication on the 2-level escapements, but it was eliminated by changing to the 3-level design.

Cheers, Al
 
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@Archer would you be kind enough to check my watch please? Ref: 29005091, Watch No: 85384224.

Thank you.

Serial number:85384224
Article ref: 29005091
Version of movement: 2500D
 
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Very interesting
I just dug out a ‘service sheet’ that was sent after the service my PO received from the company goldsmiths sent my watch to. ive attached the letter, appears I have a 2500C and parts of the CA escapment were upgraded. I assume with the costing the Al (Archer) mentions?
Russ
 
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I’m assuming that “intercalate” means the intermediate escape wheel. If so this is a normal part of servicing a 2500C.

Cheers, Al
 
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I’m assuming that “intercalate” means the intermediate escape wheel. If so this is a normal part of servicing a 2500C.

Cheers, Al
They gave this to me along with a few other bits which I labelled and filed under thingymajigs.
I googled the term at the time and it mentioned glaciers so the bag is now stored in the original box as evidence with other documentation relating to the service
 
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@Archer Out of curiosity, is Omega able to tell the servicing history of a watch based on the serial number? Thanks.

If they have done the servicing, then I suspect they can.
 
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Yes they can if, as Archer says, they did it. When I bought my railmaster they had the entire service history.