Suggest you have a good look here



This is a pretty wide selection of interesting references. In fact if you were rich, and wanted an instant collection of special speedmasters, its here. With some caveats, obviously.

First is this BA145.022-69


These are quite hard to find in the most desirable condition, specification and provenance. I have seen one sell for over $100,000 with papers in top condition and specification. What do I mean by top Spec? Well for me, and I stress its all my own taste, I want to see an Oval Omega, an early case back, a long bracelet, a case without evidence of wear and finally, if its there, papers - but this last is just icing on the cake.



If I like it, then I already like it before I see papers. This one has the round oval, late case back, slight evidence of case wear, and indeterminate bracelet. The reason I am so obsessed with the bracelet is that you need a goldsmith to adjust it, and if you don't have links then you have to make them. (Been there, done that). All said, this watch is being offered for what might appear reasonable money (for an Auction) and it will no doubt sell well. I like it, at a price.

Now we have a 145.012 Ultraman.

Not a fan in general of the Ultraman. This one seems to be ok, and priced in the median range. You never know it might go to the moon, as there still are not many about, although we still dont really know how many came out. That bezel would bother me.




Remember the out of serial range one sold at AQ last December for CHF70k? That one was out of serial range, and also looked untidy but different (wrong bezel as well):





Now A Soyuz.



Now I do like an Apollo Soyuz. One of the most desirable speedmasters. Things to watch for is that it is an original Omega produced watch, that it has a case number on the back, 5.5mm pushers and the 1168 bracelet.
First this watch fails on the pushers, which do not fill the case openings:


Now on the back, I cannot see a number, this is quite common as they were very lightly engraved, but usually a seller will know it and declare it. Not so here, and Phillips do not give us the number:



Of course, I hear you say, don't worry it has an extract, well does it? Here is the extract for this watch:




And here is mine. Note the very different wording:



Digging further, we see this watch was sold by Fortuna and is in fact #305. I wonder what happened to the papers?
(thanks for @td69 for spotting that). Originally sold in Paris? Very odd for a Soyuz.



So it will be interesting to see what this goes for.


Next is an Ed White with a Matte Grey Dial



This watch has issues, but none that would stop me buying it. If it goes for low estimate, I would love it. Matt grey dials are extremely rare, and most seen are in terrible condition, much worse that this one.



I put that photo in just to show you that while I tell you its one of the better matt grey dials I have seen, condition is still quite war torn. This watch was previously sold by Sothebys. I am a fan of this watch. Problems and all, at the right money I would love it.


Last is the 2998-1 where the cataloguers fell asleep at the Speedmaster wheel. This has been covered elsewhere on the forum.




This watch has the wrong dial. I would bet a pound to a penny this is a dealers watch. Look at the alpha hands - the shape does not match, but the lume does. The hour hand is flat, with square end slots, the hour hand has a transverse curve and curved end lume slots. So someone hs worked hard on this watch to prepare it, but they used the wrong dial, and bezel. Maybe its a 2998-3?

If this sells at this level then I would say that is higher than I can justify based on current climate.

Love to hear what others think.

Lets do a sweep - put in your guess for Final Sale Value incl premium. Here is mine:

Lot 20 $55,000
Lot 85 $26,000
Lot 86 $35,000
Lot 177 $25,000
Lot 198 $20,000

Dont go mad at me for the values, this is for fun. Lets see who gets close.

 

Well, the BA145.022 looks to have a pretty decent length bracelet - or does it?


If the Ultraman only got $26K, then I wouldn't bet against it showing up in a year or two in a smarter case, with a correct bracelet and flat-foot crown, and an asking price of $50K.

 

So what are your numbers...come on, play!

 

I’d say...
$60K
$25K
$30K
$27,500
$18,000

 

Lot 20 $50,000
Lot 85 $32,000
Lot 86 $28,000
Lot 177 $20,000
Lot 198 $28,000

place your bets, place your bets

 

I think the prices will be stronger as the market is very very dry at the moment. It will mainly depend on how educated the potential buyers are and if they do read this thread prior bidding or not

 

Who else is with me the @Spacefruit should receive compensation from the collective auction houses for tidying up and verifying their listings?

 

You are, of course, presuming that Mr Fruit is not already receiving back-handers from the auctioneers in question...

 

Can someone please explain to me the obsession with oval O vs round on the BA1969? I have seen several oval Os on late 69s and several round Os on early 69s. I highly doubt dials were being swapped on these and I don't see why it really makes a difference. Could it be that there is some misinformation out there? I have never seen anything definitive. Would love to know more if anyone has information.

 

Finalized price is in US dollars
Lot 20 $65,000
Lot 85 $27,500
Lot 86 $29,000
Lot 177 $21,000
Lot 198 $23,000

 

Lot 177 $16.000

 

Lot 20 $65,000
Lot 86 $43,000

Shouldn't we be playing in CHF?

 

My thoughts

Lot 20 $50,000
Lot 85 $35,000
Lot 86 $45,000
Lot 177 $20,000
Lot 198 $15,000 (though honestly no one should go anywhere near this one)

 

Nope. I do this all for fun. As a result they could not afford me.

 

No information, only speculation: I guess it harkens to 2998 desirability...ie oval-O’s on earlier ones vs non-oval for late...however, as you point out, this appears not the case here. People like what they like and to some it’s the emperors new clothes (like the Ultraman). Perhaps one can also draw parallels to Rolex and the ‘more desirable’ marki vs markii/iii/iv dials (edit: and ‘double signed’ dials) ...again, emperors new clothes to some, and a premium/desirability to others ...

 

Thanks. As I have been very casually trying to sell mine the last few months, a few people have asked me about it. Seems to be the general consensus among folks that I have spoken to is that there is no real rhyme or reason as to why some have oval or round Os, or a cutoff. I haven't searched recently, but like I said, I have seen many documented cases of round Os in earlier and oval Os in late, and vice versa. I might be biased, but I don't think it makes a difference

 

OK I will play

Lot 20 US$65K
Lot 85 US$25K
Lot 86 US$33K
Lot 177 US$18K
Lot 198 US$30K

I am also not a big Ultraman fan but I do like the Apollo/Soyuz.

I find predicting the price of watches nowadays almost impossible, every time I think I have a handle on them they go up so I will probably be way off.

 

ok, bit of a wild guessing exercise,

i think gold, the special dial and the dash one with issues will lead the sale

Lot 20 US$45K
Lot 85 US$23K
Lot 86 US$28K
Lot 177 US$32K
Lot 198 US$40K

 

It would not bother me if I were in the market for one. Maybe I am a contrarian, but I desire nice watches ‘as a whole’ above things which could be described as TENC GLWS.