What light does it shed on.... (Speedy 2998 content)

mac_omega · Apr 17, 2021

What light does it shed on an auction house if it does not describe very important facts about a watch?

Phillips presents a long, very detailed and flowery description of the watch, it does not mention the wrong (later) bezel with a single word though.
edited: additionally with a wrong dial (thanks to @eugeneandresson)

Phillips´ description:

Ref. 2998-1 A very rare and early stainless steel chronograph wristwatch with bracelet
Accompanied by Omega Extract from the Archives confirming production of the present watch and its subsequent delivery on May 30, 1960 to the US Aviation Foreign Exchange Base (AFEX)

Is this fair to potential uneducated buyers to omit such crucial parts which detract from the value quite significantly?

JimInOz · Apr 17, 2021

“a great way to hide the truth is to write a lot of non-fiction”

Dmitry Dyatlov

kov · Apr 17, 2021

That will be an expensive surprise for an uneducated buyer.

eugeneandresson · Apr 17, 2021

That’s either a -3 or a -4 by that picture, and I am seeing a correct bezel 😕 Or maybe I am missing something 😕😕😕

Tony C. · Apr 17, 2021

mac_omega
What light does it shed on an auction house if it does not describe very important facts about a watch?

Well, this is, of course, the rule, rather than the exception. Auction houses whose experts actually have sufficient knowledge to make relatively fine judgments about originality typically do exactly what Phillips has done in this case, namely omit details that would adversely impact the likely sale price. Caveat emptor may be the rationalization, but it is certainly a poor business practice, as Erich suggests.

The problem, in my view, is much more broad, as a culture of dishonesty has been created by politicians, Wall Street, the Mainstream Media, and many other large institutions. This is not to excuse Phillips, or any other individual offender, but the fact is that dishonesty now permeates the societies found in many "advanced" countries.

It was no coincidence that Michael Douglas' iconic line "Greed is good" was uttered in the film Wall Street in 1987, as that was when Reagan and Thatcher launched neoliberal economic policies that have inflicted profound damage on the middle and lower classes, and catalyzed the tremendous wealth inequality that is seen today. Greed may be good for those with money and power, and insider advantages, but for society as a whole, it's a different story.

So for Phillips, and the seller of such watches, life (and greed) is good. Until it isn't.

Franco · Apr 17, 2021

In the long term it would reflect negatively on the Auction House. Once it is known in the community that Phillips is omitting important comments on parts of the watch, people would avoid or at least will be super careful. This last it should not be needed with a high quality vendor.

in the short term, somebody will suffer.

michael e · Apr 17, 2021

It has always got on my tits that dishonest sellers, auction houses or web sites do much, much better than honest sellers who describe everything you need to know.
I call it an “honesty tax”.

mac_omega · Apr 17, 2021

eugeneandresson
That’s either a -3 or a -4 by that picture, and I am seeing a correct bezel 😕 Or maybe I am missing something 😕😕😕

Thank you, eagle eyes! Yes, I think you are right - the subdials tell.
So it is even worse to describe it as a 2998-1 and don´t mention the wrong parts...
I must have overlooked this in my anger. I have edited my first post accordingly.
So wrong bezel and dial 🤦

abrod520 · Apr 17, 2021

michael e
It has always got on my tits that dishonest sellers, auction houses or web sites do much, much better than honest sellers

Some of those sellers have followings that lap up anything they put out, but auction houses aren't always selling to legitimate buyers...

Deafboy · Apr 17, 2021

I don't get why people give credibility to these fancy auction houses. They are basically glorified flea-markets.

My pet peeves (all of which apply to this Speedmaster listing):
- Laughable description. Check this one out as it describes the condition of the watch:
Furthermore, it presents a remarkably well preserved and attractive dial, most notably the luminous material of hands and indexes has aged to an intense camel hue, enormously amplifying the charm and vintage vibe of the piece.
Geez, it's not like I want to have sex with the thing...
- Photoshopped pictures
- No transparency in preventing shill bids
- Way out there commission fees and premiums (what are they for this item). Not easily found.

People on OF complain all the time about eBay but these auction houses are IMO much worse

MikiJ · Apr 17, 2021

Please excuse my ignorance but is this current Phillips Auction part of the Geneva Watch Auction?

abrod520 · Apr 17, 2021

Deafboy
I don't get why people give credibility to these fancy auction houses. They are basically glorified flea-markets.

Not really flea markets. More like private exchanges with public prices. Not unlike all of the other places their usual clientele goes to move money around

abrod520 · Apr 17, 2021

MikiJ
Please excuse my ignorance but is this current Phillips Auction part of the Geneva Watch Auction?

This is the Phillips Geneva Watch Auction.

MikiJ · Apr 17, 2021

I'm asking because I'm somewhat familiar with Alex Ghotbi from PuristS then The Hour Lounge.
Alex is the Head of Sales for The Geneva Watch Auction thus it's hard to believe that he would approve any of this BS.

Tony C. · Apr 17, 2021

MikiJ
I'm asking because I'm somewhat familiar with Alex Ghotbi from PuristS then The Hour Lounge.
Alex is the Head of Sales for The Geneva Watch Auction thus it's hard to believe that he would approve any of this BS.

That's a good point. And baffling.

watchyouwant · Apr 17, 2021

MikiJ
I'm asking because I'm somewhat familiar with Alex Ghotbi from PuristS then The Hour Lounge.
Alex is the Head of Sales for The Geneva Watch Auction thus it's hard to believe that he would approve any of this BS.

So ask him and report back.

MikiJ · Apr 17, 2021

Sure Boss, as long as I have his current email addy.

TimeODanaos · Apr 17, 2021

Tony C.
a culture of dishonesty... now permeates the societies found in many "advanced" countries.

MikiJ · Apr 17, 2021

Email on the way. Now only "time" will tell. Miki

MSNWatch · Apr 17, 2021

No question this is bad practice especially when a buyer’s premium is collected. I will say though we don’t complain or point out problems when a valuable watch is poorly described and photographed hoping to snag a deal.