Because too much cash can indeed be a real problem. And the « wasted » part that exceeds the market value is to consider as cost of the laundering service

Watch Narcos on Netflix, it has nothing to do with watches but allows you to see the (too much) cash problem from a different perspective

 

You have clean cash and an asset you can cross borders with... it's been going on with art and cars for a long time... it was only a matter of time until watches caught up.

 

Exactly this.

£1million of cash you can't spend/move is worth less than £500k that you can.

 

If money laundering was one of the primary drivers of these prices, then wouldn't you see it to the same extent at all of the major auction houses? Why Phillips over their competitors? What I don't understand is how Aurel gets prices that Christie's and Sotheby's couldn't dream of. Is this really a result of the magnetism of his personality and his perceived expertise above all of his peers?

 

Re money laundering, would Phillips even be able to accept large quantities of cash and if so, surely the Swiss authorities would be asking questions? And how does the cash get to Geneva, especially these days?

 

Take a look at the Daytona sale they did a couple of years ago. Read around about the lots that got pulled and where some of the “provenance” leads...

 

There's laundering and there's laundering right?

You might have cash "stuck" somewhere and need it to be somewhere else... so you could pay in one Phillips office (Hong Kong for example), and collect the watch from another (Switzerland perhaps?), and then take it to another country (the USA) on your wrist.

It's a really good way to move money across borders when legitimate means aren't available.

 

Understand about settling in another country but Phillips' offices are mostly in jurisdictions where suitcases of cash raise questions. I'm not saying it's not happening but it's probably more the exception than the rule and therefore unlikely to be materially moving the market.

 

Don't follow this either.

 

FAP 2998-5 sold for 50K which was not a good watch

 

Guys like Pablo Escobar had more money than the Columbian government. They had so much money that they buried millions of dollars in notes, and forgot about it. So from that perspective it kinda makes sense...

Fap fap fap fap ...

 

hello

is just me or anyone also thinks these absurd overpriced auctions from phillips can be part of some money laundering or tax deduction / hiding scheme ?
it just doesnt make sense.

anyone here ever bought at their auction? i wonder who is the only cartel client that bought all those watches, lol

 

Not necessarily suitcases of cash - think of businesses/people who have huge amounts of cash in one jurisdiction and want to move it somewhere else without paying tax.

At that point we're into tax evasion/avoidance... but then depending on how the money was acquired in the first place.

 

if this is the case then why is a lange time zone in platinum only going for 40k CHF ?

 

Think about watches you can sell on easily, with wide appeal.

What is horoligicaly interesting, is very rarely interesting to the mass market... and nor does it attract the same kind of markups as some much more pedestrian stuff can.

Everyone knows what a Rolex is...

 

But why do that with all of the spotlights of the watch community shining on you instead of just going to a grey dealer? Surely no serious launderer likes the entire watch world to discuss his purchase of a couple of readily available Rolex watches.

 

Might sound like a stupid question, but: wouldn't money launderers/asset border-transporters be better off buying from dealers at better prices? Why risk getting the spotlight from a major event?

The way I see it, these auctions look like big-budget Holywood productions. Spectacles for all to watch and cheer, with fancy fireworks and explosions. Executive producers being dealers, investors, with massive past-assets, protecting prices during these awful economic situations.
One can't manipulate prices legally in financial markets. But in collectibles, there's no regulatory body which oversees the market.
I heard there are even "watchfunds" out there that promises investors returns by securing hot-ticket/rare items while making sure the investments will be sustainable. If these "watchfunds" are truly large enough, I bet "fund" managers could manipulate prices of certain items easily. And what better way to put a major price hike on their assets other than slapping high hammer prices on popular auctions watched and talked by most people in the industry.

 

Ah yes the list is X, but look how much it just sold for at auction, and I'll let you have it for just Y.

Bear in mind that these auctions are only a "big deal" in the watch collecting bubble. No one else cares.

 

If one wanted to launder money, buying watches in a public auction from an auction house will not be the place to do so...

 

So, whilst I’m agreeing (even though I’m only familiar at laundering dirty clothing), I’m wondering : who has more money laundering skillz...you or TheLizard