Pakistan Air Force Seamaster

watchyouwant · Jul 21, 2021

flyingdoormat
Just reviving this thread which I found when researching PAF Omega watches. One of the Longines referenced in a MWR link above is mine and I recently purchased an Omega with PAF engraving from the seller referred to throughout this thread. Watch is from 1984, model 166.0209 with a cal 1020 movement. Wasn't what I call expensive but the intention was to purchase an Extract of Archives to verify were the watch was delivered. Pleased to say delivery was to the Pakistan Air Forces so maybe this will change the minds of some people here as to the authenticity of the watch. I'm not saying it's a great watch and I paid accordingly. I've learnt never to just assume something isn't when with proof it can be. Who knows why or to who these watches were issued within the PAF but obviously they served a purpose. The Extract of Archives also mentioned the watch dial was black with luminous indexes (radium) which it obviously is not. When I questioned Omega about this they replied and confirmed the watch left their facilities in Biel, Switzerland with a black dial with radium indexes and assume the dial was replaced at a later date. I assume it is a re-dial but I did notice that at where the 27 minute marker should be there is a yellowy green rectangular shape which appears to be lume. Any thoughts would be welcome

That watch should not have an broadarrow at all. It is not issued and registered in the UK. And: PAF engravings and the movement number outside were applied in Pakistan. Not at the factory. Therefore the EoA should not mention " Case engraved PAF ". Omega goes here with the supplied pictures, that were sent to the factory. The 1984 Radium issue was mentioned already. Something does not add up here.... Still great, that you ordered the EoA. Kind regards. Achim

Dan S · Jul 21, 2021

flyingdoormat
In the question I asked I suggested that I didn’t believe radium would be used especially in a watch from 1984 but this is how they responded. I would have preferred the response to say grey dial non-luminous. As for service numbers I have yet to see a PAF watch of any style or make with nothing but a movement number inscribed which I assume is the service number. I know mistakes are made but I find it amusing that whenever there is doubt as to authenticity of a watch everyone screams for an E of A for proof but when provided cast doubt on it suggesting Omega got it wrong. Finally I admit this isn’t Omega’s finest but I believes point needed to be made to confirm this watch and others similar were issued and served a purpose for the PAF even if they didn’t go to the moon

That Extract is so frustrating, especially with their weird response to your query. You must be pretty annoyed that they can't do better given the price you paid. Anyway. it's good to see more verification about Omega selling watches to the PAF.

flyingdoormat · Jul 21, 2021

Have sent another question regarding the dial so hopefully will get an answer. Dial description looks like a cut and paste job as seen on the Extract posted for the Railmaster. The dial on mine is the same as others seen so maybe safe to assume the batch sent to the PAF were all the same and original to the watch. Thanks for all the comments I think we have all learnt a bit more about these watches which is what these forums are all about. Probably the only question that remains is why the broad arrow mark. My Longines from the 1950s doesn't have the broad arrow and where they appear there are so many variations in style of arrow and markings which automatically casts doubt in ones mind as to authenticity

flyingdoormat · Aug 10, 2021

Omega answered my question suggesting a special order from the PAF requesting radium luminous material

watchyouwant · Aug 10, 2021

That is very interesting and sheds more light to special deliveries. Achim

Delroyb · Aug 11, 2021

This is a fascinating thread, having dealt with a sizable collection of earlier PAF watches a few years back, learning more about the later issues is great.

mountainunder · Aug 11, 2021

Here's another Pakistan Air Force Seamaster 30 that comes with "Extract of the archives"
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g1000042853

https://www.oneminutegallery.jp/shopdetail/000000000981/

jaguar11 · Aug 11, 2021

flyingdoormat
Omega answered my question suggesting a special order from the PAF requesting radium luminous material

As one poster has already noted "never say never"

fizz · Aug 11, 2021

Fascinating thread. I have been following every known variation of watches issued to PAF for personal reasons that I've made clear on other threads and am always alarmed (but never surprised) by the healthy skepticism shown to most of these watches probably owing to Pakistan's global reputation. It's also interesting to see how most think the watch dubious to start with and question whether an Extract can prove what it shows but then when an Extract is provided, the extract itself is put into question!

I have always maintained that this Extract driven collecting mindset takes the joy away from collecting watches. My own experience with the one PAF Seachero that I own based on my request for extract and the phone calls and email exchanges with the Omega heritage department when it couldn't be issued, was proof that their records aren't accurate or reliable. Imagine if Rolex started issuing such extracts for their vintages and half the theories cooked up online and on fora such as these about celebrity-endorsed watches (I'm looking at your Daytona) turned out to be nothing more than myth creation by dealers looking to make big gains.

fizz · Aug 11, 2021

Having said that, I've been tracking a very similar model from an Italian seller on chrono24 (which I doubt anyone other than myself would be interested in) so here's the link. The dial looks pristine and 35mm is something that my delicately small wrists would accept rather easily.

@flyingdoormat what are your thoughts on this comparing it to what you have? I can't them nearly identical. Just to keep my curiosity fuelled, can you please provide a wrist shot if possible?

I've asked the seller for the existing of an EoA but not received any response yet.

Oh....and my search for a PAF Railmaster continues so if someone it tempted to part with theirs do shout out.

fizz · Aug 11, 2021

M mountainunder
Here's another Pakistan Air Force Seamaster 30 that comes with "Extract of the archives"
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g1000042853

https://www.oneminutegallery.jp/shopdetail/000000000981/

That is a genuine PAF 30 though the dial seems to be redone.

I wrote a very long thread comparing the 2 known versions of the PAF 30 (again, no one except me seems remotely interested in these...). You can read my thoughts here:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/a-deeper-look-at-the-diminutive-paf-seamaster-30-variations.113832/

flyingdoormat · Aug 11, 2021

Hi fizz
Have included a wrist shot below. I find it wears well with 35mm-40mm being about the size range that suits my wrist. The one on chrono24 appears to be the same except for the PAF engravings which have always puzzled me on these later issued ones which include a form of broad arrow and formatting is never consistent. Claims to be from 1970 which I doubt and would like to see a movement number to compare with mine. The biggest difference is the price

fizz · Aug 12, 2021

Wow...you got it for a neat price.

And honestly, it looks respectfully good on your wrist. I'll wait for the other seller to respond about the availability of Omega extract (but I highly doubt else it would have been stated).

fizz · Aug 12, 2021

I realise I didn't post the link to the chrono24 specimen. Here it is again (unless it is against forum rules...):

https://www.chrono24.com/omega/omeg...60209-paf--pakistan-air-force--id19953468.htm

Pakistan Air Force Seamaster

watchyouwant

Dan S

flyingdoormat

flyingdoormat

watchyouwant

Delroyb

mountainunder

jaguar11

fizz

fizz

fizz

flyingdoormat

fizz

fizz

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