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gatorcpa
··ΩF InvestiGatorOh man… impossible to keep up with all these references!
http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/?m=0
Happy reading!
gatorcpa
On the hunt… my first vintage piece. Omega Constellation Pie Pan
http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/?m=0
Happy reading!
gatorcpa
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gmmy775
·Hello all,
Very new here and appreciate all of the insight, as buying my first vintage luxury watch is a bit intimidating. After many months of debating which direction to go, to celebrate my restaurant’s first Michelin Star, I have decided to go with a vintage Omega Constellation Pie Pan. The amount of references and variations is overwhelming and I am not married to any particular one, but am looking for the best condition to price ratio and am hoping to avoid an accidental Frankenwatch. I have read many articles and watched lots of videos, but again, the amount of variations/combinations of case shapes, lugs, markers, materials, etc make it hard to spot any “that doesn’t match that reference” issues.
I have a few that are in a strong lead for purchase, and both sellers have good reviews, especially closer0924…
Could I trouble you all to take o look and offer your opinions here? I am grateful for your input!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2665834503...ro12-bessy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2260060007...ro12-bessy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2856921769...5050866151&itmmeta=01HSHQTSZ74FG250FECP40FBSE
I think someone else may have already mentioned this one, but let me make note of a couple of things. One, the cal. 551 is arguably one of the finest movements ever produced, period. You will never miss the complications that any 550 series date contributes. The dial is job one, and that one is putting in the work. Finally, that is quite a bracelet it arrives with. If you preferred a BOR, I suspect that there are a dozen enthusiasts in OF that would swap you before you could get the words out of your keyboard. Not the most expert Pie Panner in here, but I do look at scores of them every week.
This website may earn commission from Ebay sales.
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Winston_Smith
·Oh man… impossible to keep up with all these references! But yet you all seem to manage. Thank you!
Takes a while to absorb the tips here but I can assure you, it prevents a lot of regrets 😀Also huge congrats on the Michelin star, got huge respect for it as an avid fan of Michelin places!
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Shabbaz
·The one fropm Closer for 2K seems not the best deal, but I disagree that it is a re-dial...I have acquired a dozen watches from Closer and never any funny business.
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Shabbaz
·
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gmmy775
·Could you perhaps explain what you mean? I don't think 2k for a good arrowhead connie is much at all. Provided it is original. But more importantly, do you mean it's not a redial because you've bought a dozen of watches from closer and never seen anything notable or do you have other reasons for thinking it's not a redial? If the former, I think I have bought more than 100 watches from closer. But over all those years I have also seen dozens of closer watches with a refinished dial.
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padders
··Oooo subtitles!In my experience with Closer, that particular stainless watch, in that condition, would generally go for about 1400/1600USD. So, from that seller, I don't think it is their best deal. On the topic of redial or not, it is the latter reason I don't think redial. I did state that I am not the big dog when it comes to Pie Pans, but I do spend an hour or two 4-5 times a week studying their Omega inventory, so I am entitled to my qualified opinion. I am also a graduate gemologist/jeweler with a couple pro-level Reichert 200X binocular zoom microscopes, so I do examine things closely. In my view, the script, particularly the "ee"s, was very consistent and what I have seen often when looking at photos of Constellation dials. The hash marks did look not entirely aligned, but I would think within production tolerances. Also, Closer has seen more of these than both of us combined, and it doesn't seem logical that they would ask the most money for an example that they suspected of being a re-print. As far as your occasions of having seen multiple examples of them not disclosing, well I just have not seen that myself---but I may not have the developed the "critical vision" yet. I did join this forum to learn. I am sure you have seen many more in the flesh, and I would prefer that you didn't feel like I challenged your expertise....but I didn't agree with you. I didn't see that a concensus had actually formed, and I hope that it isn't straight-up bad juju to question a senior member. I do appreciate you sharing your vaster experience with me, and your remarks are taken as they were offered.
Disagree all you like, that’s what forums are for but that Closer watch sure looks like a redial to me. The minute track is off centre and the ticks too close to the scallops, the date wheel a totally different colour to the dial (not normal) and the top 2 lines look blurred. I wouldn’t buy it personally. If you trust any seller purely based on reputation you may run into trouble eventually.
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Peemacgee
··Purrrr-veyor of luxury cat box loungersIn my experience with Closer, that particular stainless watch, in that condition, would generally go for about 1400/1600USD. So, from that seller, I don't think it is their best deal. On the topic of redial or not, it is the latter reason I don't think redial. I did state that I am not the big dog when it comes to Pie Pans, but I do spend an hour or two 4-5 times a week studying their Omega inventory, so I am entitled to my qualified opinion. I am also a graduate gemologist/jeweler with a couple pro-level Reichert 200X binocular zoom microscopes, so I do examine things closely. In my view, the script, particularly the "ee"s, was very consistent and what I have seen often when looking at photos of Constellation dials. The hash marks did look not entirely aligned, but I would think within production tolerances. Also, Closer has seen more of these than both of us combined, and it doesn't seem logical that they would ask the most money for an example that they suspected of being a re-print. As far as your occasions of having seen multiple examples of them not disclosing, well I just have not seen that myself---but I may not have the developed the "critical vision" yet. I did join this forum to learn. I am sure you have seen many more in the flesh, and I would prefer that you didn't feel like I challenged your expertise....but I didn't agree with you. I didn't see that a concensus had actually formed, and I hope that it isn't straight-up bad juju to question a senior member. I do appreciate you sharing your vaster experience with me, and your remarks are taken as they were offered.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion @gmmy775 but sometimes it is the level of enthusiasm with which it is expressed that can be problematic.
When you've been looking at Constellation dials for a while you just get a gut feeling about whether it is right or not - which leads to further investigation.
To qualify any comments, I did say earlier that Closer's pics are always overexposed - and so make for very poor studies of validity.
The bleaching effect removes details which can lead to misreading dials - in this case it may be hiding the serifs that should be on the lettering on one of these dials.
And Closer's pics are always at an angle, so hard to assess properly for alignment.
In addition, different dial manufacturers can lead to minor variations in similar dials.
However, in this case, whilst close, the lettering isn't just missing the serifs, its just not quite the right shape - the As in particular aren't quite square enough.
Regarding production tolerances, again there can be slight variations in dials but Omega just doesn't have this bad a day at the office.
These watches were Omega's 'creme de la creme' and the minute markers are so far out that this dial would surely have been rejected. (the 5 minute mark at 2 o'clock has disappeared altogether )
This watch poses all sorts of questions:
suspect fonts
misaligned minute haches
replacement hands
something oozing from between the O & M in OMEGA (glue?)
possible misalignment of 'Constellation' with the star
The arrowheads appear to intrude too far onto the central section of the dial
Enough questions to doubt the watch - at least without better pictures to confirm or reject the issues.
Some pics:
First the Closer watch
Now a couple of correct similar watches - courtesy of our member @qazwsx1
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cineaste
·if you can stretch your budget a little bit, I would recommend buying this one
https://omegaforums.net/threads/ome...d-black-pie-pan-dial-incl-bor-chf-2300.167803
https://omegaforums.net/threads/ome...d-black-pie-pan-dial-incl-bor-chf-2300.167803
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Peemacgee
··Purrrr-veyor of luxury cat box loungersif you can stretch your budget a little bit, I would recommend buying this one
https://omegaforums.net/threads/ome...d-black-pie-pan-dial-incl-bor-chf-2300.167803
An interesting watch to be sure but patinated dials are somewhat 'marmite' as a very recent thread on the subject revealed.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/why-do-people-like-tropical-dials-like-this.170236/
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noelekal
··Home For Wayward WatchesI am not one of the Constellation experts of the Forum, though I've loved wearing a couple of 2852s for years and enjoy studying Pie Pans anytime photos are encountered.
The Closer watch in question is a re-dial. The dial's lettering is so inferior to the original article that it looks like I printed it free-handed!
The Closer watch in question is a re-dial. The dial's lettering is so inferior to the original article that it looks like I printed it free-handed!
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gmmy775
·if you can stretch your budget a little bit, I would recommend buying this one
https://omegaforums.net/threads/ome...d-black-pie-pan-dial-incl-bor-chf-2300.167803
Well said. I do believe that this discussion has produced a consensus, and I feel schooled by the genuinely knowledgeable. Your position in particular is finely presented and extremely well-articulated. With the minute details pointed out, and the comparison photos, I am now of the opinion that there is indeed something amiss with this dial. My motive for participation in this forum has always been to learn, and contribute where I might. Frankly, this is my first experience in here in which the nuts and bolts of a determination are painstakingly laid out in a way that practically anyone interested could understand. My take has been that these "calls" are generally an authoritative declaration, occasionally lacking process. Though I believe I was wrong, I do feel good about having been involved in illuminating the "why". Sort of reminds me of being in a group of gemologists who are bouncing observations off of each other, in the pursuit of the mandatory "positive ID".
I appreciate you making the effort to bring me into the light, with evidence and reason. Your input is always welcome.
jimmy
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jsducote
·
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Dan S
·I'm not wading into the authenticity debate, but I think it would be a mistake to draw an artificial line over this watch as shown. The watch is photographed at an angle, not straight on. So a line between the 2 points won't be exactly straight, it should bow slightly away from the viewer. Test this with any known-good watch dial taken at an angle and you'll see that a straight line doesn't pass through the center.
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W@tch K8ty
·Takes a while to absorb the tips here but I can assure you, it prevents a lot of regrets 😀Also huge congrats on the Michelin star, got huge respect for it as an avid fan of Michelin places!
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W@tch K8ty
·if you can stretch your budget a little bit, I would recommend buying this one
https://omegaforums.net/threads/ome...d-black-pie-pan-dial-incl-bor-chf-2300.167803
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krogerfoot
·To chime in about Closer, as a Japan resident and sometime customer, it’s a fairly reputable outfit with shrewdly priced watches. If you spot a bargain among their offerings, there’s usually a reason for it. They charge accordingly for good-condition original watches, which can be a decent deal with the yen being in the toilet. Due diligence—running watches you like by the folks here—will go a long way to getting you a watch you’ll be happy with.
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W@tch K8ty
·Anyone want to tear this one apart? The seller/watchmaker is up front about some “restoration”. Seen very few examples of the dagger hour markers like this but based on some of the comments of the other Closer piece, this too looks like another example of the markers coming out too far and it looks like some are not perfectly placed…
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SOG53
·Congrats @W@tch K8ty on your restaurateur accomplishment. I was in Atlanta in early 70s for med school and enjoyed those years immensely. There was very little outside the 285 beltway if you can believe that! We caught trout fly fishing n the Chattahoochee just north of 285!
You are celebrating a career milestone and want a nice Omega Constellation with a star to match your own. Great choice! There are very many choices as you now know. Trying to decipher the listings of a bulk high volume seller like Closer seems to me the wrong approach for this. Experienced collectors Who know their stuff can find good buys there but for you it’s a bit of unknown minefield.
I recommend that you find a nice classic stainless steel pie pan Constellation from a reputable OF member and go ahead and spend a little more for the peace of mind it brings to you. Choose the best condition option and go for it. Not everything in life has to be a great deal. Get something good and enjoy it. You won’t regret it.
You are celebrating a career milestone and want a nice Omega Constellation with a star to match your own. Great choice! There are very many choices as you now know. Trying to decipher the listings of a bulk high volume seller like Closer seems to me the wrong approach for this. Experienced collectors Who know their stuff can find good buys there but for you it’s a bit of unknown minefield.
I recommend that you find a nice classic stainless steel pie pan Constellation from a reputable OF member and go ahead and spend a little more for the peace of mind it brings to you. Choose the best condition option and go for it. Not everything in life has to be a great deal. Get something good and enjoy it. You won’t regret it.
