Omega Vintage Cioccolatone 3903 Gold 18kt Automatic -1947yr.

ConElPueblo · Jun 8, 2022

MSNWatch
In all honesty this is a parts watch - worth the melt gold value plus maybe $100 for the movement. Case has been polished significantly, dial has been poorly redialled, crown is wrong and hands are wrong and/or damaged. It takes a seasoned collector about 30 seconds to figure this out.

@George K., the above should probably be read as being the perspective of a very seasoned watch collector who is extremely careful in selecting watches for a finely curated collection, ie. the extreme end of spectrum of the watch buying audience. I am sure that if the watch was put up for sale in an auction with a fair description and decent photos, it would most likely be worth more. The buyer probably won't be a serious collector, but we tend to evaluate watch values from our own point of view.

I know that some of the comments on here can seem salty or somewhat mean; my advice is to filter out the worst and take the information given with an open mind - and don't read to much into the critique 😀

DirtyDozen12 · Jun 8, 2022

G George K.
Sorry for missing your message..and thank you for your sharing ..
No , in fact I don't have any proofs ...it was what my father had told me and of course the watch I'm looking right now..
As far as I recall , I can't remember selling you anything in order to prove something...
Did I miss anything else besides your advertising message ?? Am I liable for something ?

To clarify, the intent of my post was not to demand proof but to ask you how you concluded that the watch was purchased in 1947. Looking at serial number charts, extracts from Omega's archive, and Omega's information on ref. 3903, it seems unlikely that your watch was bought in 1947.

G George K.
I already knew the drill by the Omega itself.....thanks anyway....That's their e-mail by the way... <<Thank you very much for your mail and for sharing the photograph of this beautiful vintage OMEGA watch with us.
Regretfully, we cannot share production figures information for vintage watches nor give evaluations on their value as this is indeed a whole different business practice than what OMEGA Watches Co does.

Correct me if I am wrong, but getting an extract from Omega's archive is not the same as asking them to "share production figures information" or "give evaluations on their value". Did Omega reject your explicit request for an extract or did they simply reject your request for production figures and an appraisal?

George K. · Jun 9, 2022

ConElPueblo
@George K., the above should probably be read as being the perspective of a very seasoned watch collector who is extremely careful in selecting watches for a finely curated collection, ie. the extreme end of spectrum of the watch buying audience. I am sure that if the watch was put up for sale in an auction with a fair description and decent photos, it would most likely be worth more. The buyer probably won't be a serious collector, but we tend to evaluate watch values from our own point of view.

I know that some of the comments on here can seem salty or somewhat mean; my advice is to filter out the worst and take the information given with an open mind - and don't read to much into the critique 😀

You are absolutely right.. I sometimes tend to forget the old saying... One's behavior precedes the recommendations for him, and I attach more importance than I should ..I apologize for this.
I want to thank you personally for being kind, modest and quite helpful despite the opportunity I gave here to every oppressed and thirsty for recognition ego , to try to play power plays.at my expense.
I have one last question to make...Are there any books for me to buy regarding the history of my watch ?
Where the knowledge of the experts comes from besides the Internet ? What are their sources of knowledge for somebody to share..?
We're planning a trip to Switzerland at the end of the summer so we can pay a visit to the Οmega museum and the Technical support team,
These last couple days here made me think it's worth it..
Thanks again...

Zapatta · Jun 9, 2022

G George K.
Are there any books for me to buy regarding the history of my watch ?

There are no books about damaged redialed watches with parts that don't match, so this forum is your best option. Some of people that replied to your thread are one of most knowledgeable experts in the world but it looks like it doesn't matter to you.

George K. · Jun 9, 2022

DirtyDozen12
To clarify, the intent of my post was not to demand proof but to ask you how you concluded that the watch was purchased in 1947. Looking at serial number charts, extracts from Omega's archive, and Omega's information on ref. 3903, it seems unlikely that your watch was bought in 1947.
Correct me if I am wrong, but getting an extract from Omega's archive is not the same as asking them to "share production figures information" or "give evaluations on their value". Did Omega reject your explicit request for an extract or did they simply reject your request for production figures and an appraisal?

First of all I want to apologize about my manners and attitude. I really misunderstood your question .
To tell the truth , that was one of the very first e-mails I sent to Omega , searching for any information they could give me (appraisal , photos, production figures etc.) a few months ago.
It was after their answer that I learned about the extract from the archives procedure and what is needed to get an extract and a certificate of authenticity.
Since then, I have also addressed to Omega Team N.Y. and I'm expecting news from them.
Now about my conclusion we are talking about the year of purchased...My late father liked to talk about how he signed one of his first ship deals in Zurich at that year , and how he had spent the next 3 weeks (after he had fed up with U.B.S. offices and his Hotel), traveling to 6 to 7 cantons of Switzerland buying several things and also various art objects as a personal reward of him.
Too bad I had lost him 30 years ago and can' t ask him again to verify the year....still having everything he bought though.
But a friend of mine, and also a couple of very Noble and kind members of the Forum here, sent me the following links in order to help..and I thank them very much again !!

1) https://www.elitetimepieces.com/ome...ldsfSt4-Y7UHXqVF7CHvxeAGO5TbIDQbW8kmCb8n_Otgw
2) https://www.belovedwatch.com/a/blog/serial-number-production-year-guide-how-old-is-my-omega
3) https://watchattitude.com/omega-serial-numbers-production-dates/
4) https://www.thewatchstandard.com/complete-guide-to-understanding-omega-serial-numbers/
5) https://www.vintagemasters.eu/omega-serial-numbers-check-and-verify/
6) https://millenarywatches.com/omega-serial-numbers/
7) https://serial-number-decoder.co.uk/omega/omega.htm
8) https://est1897.co.uk/pages/omega-serial-number-guide

Can't say who is right or wrong...but I intend to find out in person, during the time we will shake hands with the Omega team.. 😉

George K. · Jun 9, 2022

Zapatta
There are no books about damaged redialed watches with parts that don't match, so this forum is your best option. Some of people that replied to your thread are one of most knowledgeable experts in the world but it looks like it doesn't matter to you.

Thank you for your helpful opinion. I already take it into account.. It would be very helpful if somebody could tell me how he figured out the redialed watch with parts that don't match.
And any suggestion about books about vintage Omega Watches would be also appreciated ...It is Summer after all...the most appropriate time for extra knowledge.

DirtyDozen12 · Jun 9, 2022

G George K.
Can't say who is right or wrong...but I intend to find out in person, during the time we will shake hands with the Omega team.. 😉

All 8 of those sources indicate that an Omega with a serial number (i.e. movement number) within the range of 12'000'000-12'999'999 would have been produced around 1950/1951. Are you taking the number on the case-back to be the serial number that suggests the date of production? I believe that this is incorrect for Omega watches of this period. Please refer to this post by @mac_omega: https://omegaforums.net/threads/french-omegas-and-their-numbers-looking-for-info.53549/#post-650927

EDIT: P.S. @mac_omega wrote a book that you might enjoy: https://www.fratellowatches.com/30-...exer-a-book-for-every-vintage-omega-fan/#gref

KLXN · Jun 9, 2022

G George K.
Thank you for your helpful opinion. I already take it into account.. It would be very helpful if somebody could tell me how he figured out the redialed watch with parts that don't match.
And any suggestion about books about vintage Omega Watches would be also appreciated ...It is Summer after all...the most appropriate time for extra knowledge.

About detecting repainted dials - I think the way of doing it could be simplified to such approaches:
1. Compare the dial with other examples of the same model
2. If you can't find exactly the same model you can compare elements of the dial with different watches from similar year or line of watches (to check style of the logo etc.)
3. You can also take a look at the watch itself (check the quality of the writing, quality of the dial paint, if printing is correctly centered in compare to indices, etc.)

In case of your watch - results are these:
1st test failed as we haven't found example of this exact model with such dial
2nd test also failed as examples provided earlier in this thread shows different prints, different sub second hand, different crown etc.
3rd test - This one is up to experience of each person. From my perspective (and apparently others in this thread) it also fails. As the quality of printing is not good enough (the lines are not sharp, the lettering is inconsistent - some parts of letters are wider and some are thinner)

ConElPueblo · Jun 9, 2022

KLXN
About detecting repainted dials - I think the way of doing it could be simplified to such approaches:
1. Compare the dial with other examples of the same model
2. If you can't find exactly the same model you can compare elements of the dial with different watches from similar year or line of watches (to check style of the logo etc.)
3. You can also take a look at the watch itself (check the quality of the writing, quality of the dial paint, if printing is correctly centered in compare to indices, etc.)

In case of your watch - results are these:
1st test failed as we haven't found example of this exact model with such dial
2nd test also failed as examples provided earlier in this thread shows different prints, different sub second hand, different crown etc.
3rd test - This one is up to experience of each person. From my perspective (and apparently others in this thread) it also fails. As the quality of printing is not good enough (the lines are not sharp, the lettering is inconsistent - some parts of letters are wider and some are thinner)

Very good points. In this case, experience tells us that these square Omegas (as well as the triple date moonphase refs) often suffer from moisture ingress due to sub-par water resistance and pristine dials are therefore an anomaly and must be scrutinised thoroughly.

ALEJANDRO BOVONE · Jun 9, 2022

it s a shame it was redialed, crown and second hand replaced. but you can think of this as a nice project. you can find the right crown and hand, should not be expensive. also as dial design is really simple you can certainly find somebody who would do the job with the same finish than omega factory dials, same texture and nice looking graphics. you ll have fun and watch will definitely look better

Omega Vintage Cioccolatone 3903 Gold 18kt Automatic -1947yr.

ConElPueblo

DirtyDozen12

George K.

Zapatta

George K.

George K.

DirtyDozen12

KLXN

ConElPueblo

ALEJANDRO BOVONE

Similar threads

REDUCED x2: Vintage Favre-Leuba Square Steel BLUE Daymatic “Cioccolatone”

SOLD : IWC 18kt. Automatic 1964-1965 (807A)

FS: 18kt Solid Gold Omega Vintage Bumper Cioccolatone

Omega Jumbo "Cioccolatone"" ref 3903 18k Yellow Gold