- Posts
- 17
- Likes
- 7
kwh81
·Hey Omega forums community! This is my first post, but I have been tapping in on your knowledge about vintage watches and especially Seamaster De Ville models for over a year when I first started to look for information about a watch I was considering of buying.
I have been in awe of the depth of knowledge that true enthusiasts like the members on this forum have and I appreciate every post that I came across. I have also found a new appreciation for old things that still work perfectly like the watch I ended up buying has been for maybe 60 years. Simply amazing!
Reader be advised. Text came out really long, maybe too much so but I do have six specific questions at the end of this all if you bear with me.
Well, I did buy the watch which is Omega Seamaster De Ville 18k automatic with integrated gold bracelet. I have studied the reference numbers, @PlainVanilla has amazing thread of SMDV's https://omegaforums.net/threads/the-ultimate-seamaster-de-ville-thread.159035, and Swiss 7161 might be the correct reference, but I'll of course have to check it from the inside to be sure. It's from early 60's judging from the "no t's in the dial" but with tritium lume in batons and hands, lume actually works but only for a few seconds. It has the movement with quick set date, should be caliber 562. Double signed "Turler" dial seems original and matches the Turler box that it came in. Crown is original, crystal is not - no omega logo in crystal. Hands are correct although bit suffered. I can't tell if it has been polished, at least not judging from the scratches. Photos of my watch attached. I really tried to get good quality pictures in natural light but I'm clearly not a professional and found it really difficult to prevent reflections and shadows.
I bought it from an online auction, and I didn't have a chance to see the watch live. It had no papers, but it came with a box. There were pretty good pictures though (these pictures are mine). I only knew it was seized property and later found out its previous owner was a convicted drug trafficker. The authorities auctioned it so there were no knowledgeable parties in this transaction or any information about the watch’s history, authenticity or even model. I didn't want to visit jail to ask the previous owner, so I relied to internet for information.
Thanks to different threads and posts here, how to fish, fake dials, double signed dials, lume with t or two t's or no t's, small lume dots at the end of the batons, original crowns, over polishing and so much more, I found confidence to buy the watch! I'm really happy about it and have been using it constantly for the last 10 months. It runs very well, just under a minute fast per day.
After purchasing the watch I have read possibly every post there is about SMDV's and am still looking to find out more and seems like there always is more. Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to have my watch opened yet to see the movement, reference and serial number and possible other markings inside and I'm looking forward to it.
Few weeks ago I took the watch to a Omega authorised store that specializes in high end vintage watches to get it serviced, and also I had few questions about it. They advertised on their homepage, that they always do a maintenance assessment for the watch (open it, remove movement, dial if necessary, test it for timekeeping etc.) and give an recommendation and preliminary cost estimate. In my case the storekeeper took a quick look of the watch, turned the crown and said the wind seems stiff. Then he gave the estimate. I was bit turned off, but we continued from there. To tell the truth, I didn't even know you could wind an automatic watch so I don't know too much of anything.
I specifically wanted to know about the possibility to shorten the bracelet - it is at least 1 cm too long for me. I was wondering if they thought it might be possible to source an Omega folding clasp for my bracelet so the ends of the bracelet would come closer together - my very own idea. To my surprise I was told that folding clasps have not been made for this type of bracelet, only some Constellation gold watches with much thicker bands had those and the only option for me is to have a goldsmith shorten the bracelet. I have seen a few examples of folding clasps in internet search for similar models with integrated bracelet so I was surprised they were so quick to shut down the idea. Also I wondered if the guy knew what he was talking about because I've seen the pictures. I do understand that he might not be as interested in this specific model as I am and hasn't researched it at all, but I wasn't impressed.
In my mind I thought that shortening the bracelet would be an irreversible alteration and would affect the watches value in the long run negatively because now it would fit just my wrist, maybe no-one else’s. He didn't think it would be an issue because the 34mm case wouldn't be for large wristed persons anyway. The total length of the bracelet is 20,5 cm and my wrist is freakishly thin so I'm not sure what to think about his point of view.
We discussed the service - which would cost 700€ including new crystal and crown + everything the movement will need - and the shortening of bracelet that would add 200-300€ more. I asked to have pictures taken of the movement and caseback from the inside during the service and I was told they don't do that?! He told me that they have so many watches opened at the same time, that they would easily forget to take pictures even if they promised to, so they don't do it at all. What I have learned here reading this forum, is that the first thing people ask for is the picture of the caseback and movement. I did not like this, because a frontloader like this is not casually opened so this would be my only opportunity to have the pictures taken.
Next I asked if the original crown could be saved - another thing that in my understanding is appreciated amongst the collectors - I was told that the originality doesn't matter and the most important thing is to make sure the seal is proper. Fair point of course regarding functionality but quite frankly I personally really prefer the look of the original over the service crown. Not to mention the collectivity aspect of it. I'm a noobie so I'm not sure what to think about this.
At this point I started to be a bit sceptical and wanted to see what the guy thought of the watch as a whole and asked if they would be interested in purchasing the watch from me if I wouldn't want to shorten the bracelet and thus not keep the watch for myself. This is when I was really surprised. He told me they wouldn't have any interest in the watch because it is in such a bad shape. He basically told me that the dial is ruined and the bracelet is not good. I was under the impression that the (what I thought was gold) dial in my watch is in very good shape - the crystal is scratched. He told me that the dial is actually silver and the lacquer has aged causing the yellow look and makes it really bad. I couldn't believe. He insisted.
I tried to find out what he meant about the bracelet, but he simply stated it is worn and doesn't compare to a new one. I think it's beautiful with only few minor defects.
At this point I decided not to leave the watch there for service to get a second opinion about these issues before deciding what to do about the watch. I love it, but I'm not sure if it will be THE watch for me to make sense investing so much more to it. I also want to figure out if I can trust them with servicing my watch. He seems confident and might be right but I don't quite trust his expertise. I would love to have the possibility to hear from people who I consider the true experts - watch enthusiasts here in the forum who own and treasure these classic watches yourselves. I would greatly appreciate your views on following issues - if granted.
1. Would it be a bad move in the long run to shorten the bracelet? I don't want to ruin the watch and I have gotten used to it being a bit loose.
2. Do you think it would be impossible to find a folding clasp or any other type clasp to have the extra cm off the length of the bracelet via adjustment instead of shortening it? Here's an example from previously mentioned SMDV-thread. https://i.postimg.cc/7YCZYGDN/Screenshot-20230503-111952-Chrome.jpg
3. How can you service the watch and keep it original - considering the crown's seal?
4. Is the dial on my watch gold or silver? I haven't found discussion about tainted silver dials in this forum. I know material is revealed after the dial is removed to see the back of it, but what do you think from the pictures?
5. How do I determine condition of the bracelet? In my opinion it has only few minor visible defects, it's mostly unified and intact. What makes the difference between good and bad?
6. Does the watch store seem like a reliable place for service in your opinion? It didn't feel right to me and I don't want to be ripped off or my inexperience taken advantage of.
There it is. Thank you for reading and hopefully you could share your knowledge and opinion regarding these issues. Much appreciated!
I have been in awe of the depth of knowledge that true enthusiasts like the members on this forum have and I appreciate every post that I came across. I have also found a new appreciation for old things that still work perfectly like the watch I ended up buying has been for maybe 60 years. Simply amazing!
Reader be advised. Text came out really long, maybe too much so but I do have six specific questions at the end of this all if you bear with me.
Well, I did buy the watch which is Omega Seamaster De Ville 18k automatic with integrated gold bracelet. I have studied the reference numbers, @PlainVanilla has amazing thread of SMDV's https://omegaforums.net/threads/the-ultimate-seamaster-de-ville-thread.159035, and Swiss 7161 might be the correct reference, but I'll of course have to check it from the inside to be sure. It's from early 60's judging from the "no t's in the dial" but with tritium lume in batons and hands, lume actually works but only for a few seconds. It has the movement with quick set date, should be caliber 562. Double signed "Turler" dial seems original and matches the Turler box that it came in. Crown is original, crystal is not - no omega logo in crystal. Hands are correct although bit suffered. I can't tell if it has been polished, at least not judging from the scratches. Photos of my watch attached. I really tried to get good quality pictures in natural light but I'm clearly not a professional and found it really difficult to prevent reflections and shadows.
I bought it from an online auction, and I didn't have a chance to see the watch live. It had no papers, but it came with a box. There were pretty good pictures though (these pictures are mine). I only knew it was seized property and later found out its previous owner was a convicted drug trafficker. The authorities auctioned it so there were no knowledgeable parties in this transaction or any information about the watch’s history, authenticity or even model. I didn't want to visit jail to ask the previous owner, so I relied to internet for information.
Thanks to different threads and posts here, how to fish, fake dials, double signed dials, lume with t or two t's or no t's, small lume dots at the end of the batons, original crowns, over polishing and so much more, I found confidence to buy the watch! I'm really happy about it and have been using it constantly for the last 10 months. It runs very well, just under a minute fast per day.
After purchasing the watch I have read possibly every post there is about SMDV's and am still looking to find out more and seems like there always is more. Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to have my watch opened yet to see the movement, reference and serial number and possible other markings inside and I'm looking forward to it.
Few weeks ago I took the watch to a Omega authorised store that specializes in high end vintage watches to get it serviced, and also I had few questions about it. They advertised on their homepage, that they always do a maintenance assessment for the watch (open it, remove movement, dial if necessary, test it for timekeeping etc.) and give an recommendation and preliminary cost estimate. In my case the storekeeper took a quick look of the watch, turned the crown and said the wind seems stiff. Then he gave the estimate. I was bit turned off, but we continued from there. To tell the truth, I didn't even know you could wind an automatic watch so I don't know too much of anything.
I specifically wanted to know about the possibility to shorten the bracelet - it is at least 1 cm too long for me. I was wondering if they thought it might be possible to source an Omega folding clasp for my bracelet so the ends of the bracelet would come closer together - my very own idea. To my surprise I was told that folding clasps have not been made for this type of bracelet, only some Constellation gold watches with much thicker bands had those and the only option for me is to have a goldsmith shorten the bracelet. I have seen a few examples of folding clasps in internet search for similar models with integrated bracelet so I was surprised they were so quick to shut down the idea. Also I wondered if the guy knew what he was talking about because I've seen the pictures. I do understand that he might not be as interested in this specific model as I am and hasn't researched it at all, but I wasn't impressed.
In my mind I thought that shortening the bracelet would be an irreversible alteration and would affect the watches value in the long run negatively because now it would fit just my wrist, maybe no-one else’s. He didn't think it would be an issue because the 34mm case wouldn't be for large wristed persons anyway. The total length of the bracelet is 20,5 cm and my wrist is freakishly thin so I'm not sure what to think about his point of view.
We discussed the service - which would cost 700€ including new crystal and crown + everything the movement will need - and the shortening of bracelet that would add 200-300€ more. I asked to have pictures taken of the movement and caseback from the inside during the service and I was told they don't do that?! He told me that they have so many watches opened at the same time, that they would easily forget to take pictures even if they promised to, so they don't do it at all. What I have learned here reading this forum, is that the first thing people ask for is the picture of the caseback and movement. I did not like this, because a frontloader like this is not casually opened so this would be my only opportunity to have the pictures taken.
Next I asked if the original crown could be saved - another thing that in my understanding is appreciated amongst the collectors - I was told that the originality doesn't matter and the most important thing is to make sure the seal is proper. Fair point of course regarding functionality but quite frankly I personally really prefer the look of the original over the service crown. Not to mention the collectivity aspect of it. I'm a noobie so I'm not sure what to think about this.
At this point I started to be a bit sceptical and wanted to see what the guy thought of the watch as a whole and asked if they would be interested in purchasing the watch from me if I wouldn't want to shorten the bracelet and thus not keep the watch for myself. This is when I was really surprised. He told me they wouldn't have any interest in the watch because it is in such a bad shape. He basically told me that the dial is ruined and the bracelet is not good. I was under the impression that the (what I thought was gold) dial in my watch is in very good shape - the crystal is scratched. He told me that the dial is actually silver and the lacquer has aged causing the yellow look and makes it really bad. I couldn't believe. He insisted.
I tried to find out what he meant about the bracelet, but he simply stated it is worn and doesn't compare to a new one. I think it's beautiful with only few minor defects.
At this point I decided not to leave the watch there for service to get a second opinion about these issues before deciding what to do about the watch. I love it, but I'm not sure if it will be THE watch for me to make sense investing so much more to it. I also want to figure out if I can trust them with servicing my watch. He seems confident and might be right but I don't quite trust his expertise. I would love to have the possibility to hear from people who I consider the true experts - watch enthusiasts here in the forum who own and treasure these classic watches yourselves. I would greatly appreciate your views on following issues - if granted.
1. Would it be a bad move in the long run to shorten the bracelet? I don't want to ruin the watch and I have gotten used to it being a bit loose.
2. Do you think it would be impossible to find a folding clasp or any other type clasp to have the extra cm off the length of the bracelet via adjustment instead of shortening it? Here's an example from previously mentioned SMDV-thread. https://i.postimg.cc/7YCZYGDN/Screenshot-20230503-111952-Chrome.jpg
3. How can you service the watch and keep it original - considering the crown's seal?
4. Is the dial on my watch gold or silver? I haven't found discussion about tainted silver dials in this forum. I know material is revealed after the dial is removed to see the back of it, but what do you think from the pictures?
5. How do I determine condition of the bracelet? In my opinion it has only few minor visible defects, it's mostly unified and intact. What makes the difference between good and bad?
6. Does the watch store seem like a reliable place for service in your opinion? It didn't feel right to me and I don't want to be ripped off or my inexperience taken advantage of.
There it is. Thank you for reading and hopefully you could share your knowledge and opinion regarding these issues. Much appreciated!
