Omega Seamaster Cal. 503 from 1961, seeking opinions

[timewise]

Hi everyone!

recently I've been looking around a bit to add a vintage Seamaster to my modern one, and I learned a lot from the forum already. Still the dazzling variety of calibres and dials make it difficult for me to identify overdone watches. I found a seemingly nice black dial Seamaster Calendar from 1961, cal. 503, and am now asking for your opinions.

It's a gold-filled version (so that isn't ideal but the case looks ok and neither worn off nor overpolished to me). If I read up correctly about the "K&L" marking in the caseback, this could be a US version and the equivalent reference would probably be 2849(-6SC)?

My main concern is that the dial looks almost too clean for that age, while there doesn't seem to be any lume anymore. Also I've seen a few other examples of this reference where the "Seamaster" print is in a separate line without any overlap with the "Calendar". Price around $600. So here are the pictures - thanks for any thoughts that you might have on this one!

 

[padders]

That is a domestic ie local market case but not necessarily US. I would expect a US market watch to have the 17j version of a given movement, in this case the 502 and also a OXG mark on the movement. I do have suspicions that the dial has been re-done. The minute marks seem very out of line with the indices and I note there are indices where lume should be. That and the fact it is a black dial (always a warning sign) suggest redial to me.

 

[Spruce]

Welcome to OF.

I’m afraid that I agree with @padders and, like him, suspect a repainted dial.

That said, you’re new to the Forum, and may just fancy buying a watch that appeals to you.

You may actually derive a lot of pleasure wearing it and getting compliments about it but, whether knowing what you know about it might spoil that enjoyment, is a something you’ll now have to consider.

 

[timewise]

Thanks a lot @padders and @Spruce ! As I expected the black dial is probably too good to be true 🙁 Good point about the minute marks where lume should be. Although the repainted dial isn't necessarily a deal breaker (and the movement looks alright to me [?]), it does spoil the fun a bit. I've got some nice vintage Seikos and like to know what I buy and wear. So your assessments are much appreciated.

 

[watch_er]

Should there be "T Swiss Made T" on this dial for the lume at the indices and on the hands?

 

[timewise]

watch_er

Should there be "T Swiss Made T" on this dial for the lume at the indices and on the hands?

Not necessarily. I've seen a couple of pictures of this (or a related) reference without the "T", for instance in this post by @Alpenschneerot: Help And Advice On Finding A Seamaster Dial (503)

 

[watch_er]

timewise

Not necessarily. I've seen a couple of pictures of this (or a related) reference without the "T", for instance in this post by @Alpenschneerot: Help And Advice On Finding A Seamaster Dial (503)

Thanks for the reply and reference. I haven't looked to deeply into Seamaster yet, so still learning, as my focus has been more on Constellations and it seems that the T marking for lume is more common on them.

 

[MtV]

watch_er

Thanks for the reply and reference. I haven't looked to deeply into Seamaster yet, so still learning, as my focus has been more on Constellations and it seems that the T marking for lume is more common on them.

The T marking isn’t related to the model, but to the time of production. It was introduced sometime in 61-62 and became mandatory in 63-64, if I’m not mistaken. I wouldn’t expect to find it on this watch, as it was produced earlier - I vote redial regardless.

 

[JimInOz]

Definitely a US cased watch. L & K is Lutringer & Kammerer, a watch case maker in New York City who made cases for the US Omega agent, Norman Morris Corp.

The OXG may be hidden under the rotor as it's usually marked on the balance cock.

 

[padders]

watch_er

Should there be "T Swiss Made T" on this dial for the lume at the indices and on the hands?

Not in 1961 no. Firstly they were still using radium and even when they did change the Ts didn’t come in until around 1963.

 

[padders]

JimInOz

Definitely a US cased watch. L & K is Lutringer & Kammerer, a watch case maker in New York City who made cases for the US Omega agent, Norman Morris Corp.

The OXG may be hidden under the rotor as it's usually marked on the balance cock.

Note it is a 20j 503 movement. Most (all?) OXG marked watches I have seen have had the 17j version, in this case that would be the 502. It is possible it’s been swapped. It’s odd at least.

 

[timewise]

padders

Note it is a 20j 503 movement. Most (all?) OXG marked watches I have seen have had the 17j version, in this case that would be the 502. It is possible it’s been swapped. It’s odd at least.

Since cal. 503 seems to be have been used in ref. 2849 (non-US), using it for a swap when necessary would have made sense. Anyway, it only raises more questions about the watch being not as original as one might wish it to be.

 

[BarbVl]

If you are not a collector who want only original dials (not redials) i think it's a very nice watch. Personally i like how it looks.

 

[JimInOz]

padders

Note it is a 20j 503 movement. Most (all?) OXG marked watches I have seen have had the 17j version, in this case that would be the 502. It is possible it’s been swapped. It’s odd at least.

I share your suspicions but can't be 100% unless we can see all aspects of the movement.
It does have a varied colour palette, but it could be due to lighting/angles.

 

[mrbreen]

This is a watch you walk away from 😀

 

[timewise]

mrbreen

This is a watch you walk away from 😀

Actually I never came too close 😉 - and yes, casting the net elsewhere already ...