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SkunkPrince
·Now you may have “aftermarket” parts for some brands and movements, but no where near what these older systems provided.
Omega Parts - Restrictive Practice
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ArmbandUhr69
·Hard to understand some of that, but it appears you were asking him to install parts on the watch that aren’t for that watch. If so, then that was a good move on his part. No one should be pressured into putting their parts account at risk.
Yes, I did ask him, no I didn't pressure him. He said he couldn't do it, after we discussed the options under the Omega umbrella, for which there were none, I said OK and found a master watchmaker that would. The new watchmaker asked a lot of questions about the crystal and back so he wasn't unaware of the necessary requirements and is Omega trained. If you feel these are substandard parts then you should say so, I would be happy to listen to you but so far I am only hearing they are not Omega parts, which is not an integrity issue in itself.
I have a view that non OE parts in the movement is not acceptable to me. The crystal and the back form a component of the protective case and as long as these alternative parts are to the same standard then there is no problem for me. The watch isn't being offered for sale and should I ever do so then I would note these parts as improvements and be upfront about them. I fully understand the parts account and business relationship issues, what I have an issue with is despite buying the watch, Omega has this view now that you are but a custodian and they will decide how your watch is maintained, with very limited alternatives available to the owner. I think that it is important to understand that at no time am I suggesting doing it on the cheap or reducing the performance of the watch as I see it as a user, just doing it with a few improvements that the factory doesn't provide for this specific model. Sapphire and display backs are available for other Omega models so they are not in themselves bad ideas, just we don't do them for this model so you can't have them. I have had more crystals changed than hot dinners (almost) so the sapphire cannot be less suitable than the mineral glass provided, for my use.
Car analogy again, I have a few Audi. If I take them to Audi service I get Audi parts, but I can also get a windscreen or tyres at other outlets that are the equal of the factory parts (if not better) and there is no restriction on this. I want mechanical watchmakers to thrive for the benefit of us all but you can't give business to someone who doesn't want to do what you want to pay for, for reasons that are vague at best.
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JwRosenthal
·Yes, I did ask him, no I didn't pressure him. He said he couldn't do it, after we discussed the options under the Omega umbrella, for which there were none, I said OK and found a master watchmaker that would. The new watchmaker asked a lot of questions about the crystal and back so he wasn't unaware of the necessary requirements and is Omega trained. If you feel these are substandard parts then you should say so, I would be happy to listen to you but so far I am only hearing they are not Omega parts, which is not an integrity issue in itself.
I have a view that non OE parts in the movement is not acceptable to me. The crystal and the back form a component of the protective case and as long as these alternative parts are to the same standard then there is no problem for me. The watch isn't being offered for sale and should I ever do so then I would note these parts as improvements and be upfront about them. I fully understand the parts account and business relationship issues, what I have an issue with is despite buying the watch, Omega has this view now that you are but a custodian and they will decide how your watch is maintained, with very limited alternatives available to the owner. I think that it is important to understand that at no time am I suggesting doing it on the cheap or reducing the performance of the watch as I see it as a user, just doing it with a few improvements that the factory doesn't provide for this specific model. Sapphire and display backs are available for other Omega models so they are not in themselves bad ideas, just we don't do them for this model so you can't have them. I have had more crystals changed than hot dinners (almost) so the sapphire cannot be less suitable than the mineral glass provided, for my use.
Car analogy again, I have a few Audi. If I take them to Audi service I get Audi parts, but I can also get a windscreen or tyres at other outlets that are the equal of the factory parts (if not better) and there is no restriction on this. I want mechanical watchmakers to thrive for the benefit of us all but you can't give business to someone who doesn't want to do what you want to pay for, for reasons that are vague at best.
And I’m all for “your watch, your choice”. But I would never expect a professional to do anything they feel uncomfortable doing.
Rolex never made an acrylic crystal for the 14060, and I don’t care for sapphire, so I had an aftermarket super dome acrylic crystal installed by a friend.
Not a chance in hell any Rolex service provider would do this (not only not the correct part for the watch but aftermarket)…and I believe Rolex has issued a court order recalling my watch for such heresy.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerYes, I did ask him, no I didn't pressure him. He said he couldn't do it, after we discussed the options under the Omega umbrella, for which there were none, I said OK and found a master watchmaker that would. The new watchmaker asked a lot of questions about the crystal and back so he wasn't unaware of the necessary requirements and is Omega trained. If you feel these are substandard parts then you should say so, I would be happy to listen to you but so far I am only hearing they are not Omega parts, which is not an integrity issue in itself.
I have a view that non OE parts in the movement is not acceptable to me. The crystal and the back form a component of the protective case and as long as these alternative parts are to the same standard then there is no problem for me. The watch isn't being offered for sale and should I ever do so then I would note these parts as improvements and be upfront about them. I fully understand the parts account and business relationship issues, what I have an issue with is despite buying the watch, Omega has this view now that you are but a custodian and they will decide how your watch is maintained, with very limited alternatives available to the owner. I think that it is important to understand that at no time am I suggesting doing it on the cheap or reducing the performance of the watch as I see it as a user, just doing it with a few improvements that the factory doesn't provide for this specific model. Sapphire and display backs are available for other Omega models so they are not in themselves bad ideas, just we don't do them for this model so you can't have them. I have had more crystals changed than hot dinners (almost) so the sapphire cannot be less suitable than the mineral glass provided, for my use.
Car analogy again, I have a few Audi. If I take them to Audi service I get Audi parts, but I can also get a windscreen or tyres at other outlets that are the equal of the factory parts (if not better) and there is no restriction on this. I want mechanical watchmakers to thrive for the benefit of us all but you can't give business to someone who doesn't want to do what you want to pay for, for reasons that are vague at best.
If the parts are substandard or not is irrelevant to this situation, as is most of your post.
You got your watch modified by someone else, so your complaints here are rather odd. Omega didn’t prevent you from doing this by your own admission.
@JwRosenthal has detailed the reasons why your car analogy doesn’t apply, so no need to expand on that.
Cheers, Al
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ArmbandUhr69
·If the parts are substandard or not is irrelevant to this situation, as is most of your post.
You got your watch modified by someone else, so your complaints here are rather odd. Omega didn’t prevent you from doing this by your own admission.
@JwRosenthal has detailed the reasons why your car analogy doesn’t apply, so no need to expand on that.
Cheers, Al
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI guess we all see relevance in our own arguements, both you and me. Maybe we are both right, or both wrong. My watch hasn't yet been modifed as USPS are preventing my crystal being dispatched so pending some sense of normality being achieved in the logistic chain, nothing is happening. Perfect planning prevents piss poor performance so trying to arrange something ahead of time is a bonus in my book. As you have a down the line view on this I won't bore you with the detail of automotive parts.
Having worked as an engineer in the automotive industry for over two decades, I think I understand automotive parts pretty well thanks.
Just to be clear, I have no problems with anyone modifying their watches. But just like you can choose to have your watch modified as you want, watchmakers can choose to refuse the work if they so choose.
Cheers, Al
Edited:
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ArmbandUhr69
·To use your car analogy, you can’t walk into an Audi dealer and ask them to install tires that are not approved as OEM. I have asked about the tire/wheel warranty on BMW’s with non-run flat tires and their answer was a firm “nope”, not OEM. You also can’t bring an Audi authorized service provider an aftermarket windshield and ask them to install it- they won’t, they’ll order the factory glass and have it installed by one of their glass installers. Yes, you have choices of other vendors for those modifications (as you do with independent watchmakers), but if a watchmaker is an authorized service provider for a particular company, then they have to play by the companies rules or risk no longer being an authorized service provider for them. Again, this is he same across many industries, not just watches.
And I’m all for “your watch, your choice”. But I would never expect a professional to do anything they feel uncomfortable doing.
Rolex never made an acrylic crystal for the 14060, and I don’t care for sapphire, so I had an aftermarket super dome acrylic crystal installed by a friend.
Not a chance in hell any Rolex service provider would do this (not only not the correct part for the watch but aftermarket)…and I believe Rolex has issued a court order recalling my watch for such heresy.
To set the scene, we are talking specifically about the 50 year old Speedmaster I have posted on previously on this very issue and I'm pre run-flat tyres😀 I only have "collectable" cars that pre date some of the Audi mechanics date of birth. I have no argument with your comments at all, with the one point that alternatives usually exist and that is less easy to access in the brand name watch world.
Audi don't stock OE spec 300 KPH rated tyres for my cars as wheel sizes have changed in 20 years so I go to one of the specialists at Michelin.
Audi do not fit windscreens in our neck of the woods. They sub contract it out to specialists. I actually prefer to use Audi windscreens because there isn't any better (as opposed to the sapphire crystal issue) and they are fitted at my house.
I am heartened to hear that you made an informed choice for your Rolex. Surely such a small thing to decide on in life.
I think we have done this to death. You made the comment about not expecting a professional to do something he is uncomfortable with. Of course, one of the minute in this whole issue is that I have used this father and son team for years and they are widely experienced and would attempt anything. This reluctance has only come about as a result of their taking on the agency, so professionally they would have been fine with my requests and should something have not worked out then it would have been on me, as is only right.
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JwRosenthal
·To set the scene, we are talking specifically about the 50 year old Speedmaster I have posted on previously on this very issue and I'm pre run-flat tyres😀 I only have "collectable" cars that pre date some of the Audi mechanics date of birth. I have no argument with your comments at all, with the one point that alternatives usually exist and that is less easy to access in the brand name watch world.
Audi don't stock OE spec 300 KPH rated tyres for my cars as wheel sizes have changed in 20 years so I go to one of the specialists at Michelin.
Audi do not fit windscreens in our neck of the woods. They sub contract it out to specialists. I actually prefer to use Audi windscreens because there isn't any better (as opposed to the sapphire crystal issue) and they are fitted at my house.
I am heartened to hear that you made an informed choice for your Rolex. Surely such a small thing to decide on in life.
I think we have done this to death. You made the comment about not expecting a professional to do something he is uncomfortable with. Of course, one of the minute in this whole issue is that I have used this father and son team for years and they are widely experienced and would attempt anything. This reluctance has only come about as a result of their taking on the agency, so professionally they would have been fine with my requests and should something have not worked out then it would have been on me, as is only right.
On the side note of auto repair- like you I own older German cars (I do love my Audi A3 8p) with the exception of the 2 Mini’s we have with the horrific runflats, I’ve already ditched mine and when my wife’s car is out of warranty, we will be ditching hers and getting a compact spare.
My mechanic was the service manager for one of the largest BMW dealerships in the area for many years. He finally got sick of the ridiculous protocols and opened his own shop in the mid-90’s and took his clients with him. He believes in repairing when possible and not replacing (which goes against BMW’s protocols). Luckily the automotive industry is currently required in the US to provide parts availability to independent mechanics, thus he can repair my cars and make modifications to the protocols as he sees fit (like replacing just the gasket in a leaking tail light assembly rather than having to replace the entire assembly).
Not sure of the nuances of the laws that govern automotive parts availability, but the manufacturers continue to try to make it difficult for independents to function. Greed is king.
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Walrus
·I love so many of the newer Omegas but the whole “co-axial” thing just reminds me there will be extra steps invoked getting a service. I’d really prefer not to put my watch in the mail to get serviced, I’ve done it just don’t like it I know a while ago there was a big anti US mail thread but TBH things are worse now (for me) than when that thread was a hot topic. I know my mundane speedy can be serviced locally with no issue. Omega can do as they wish and of course you want someone knowledgeable with a movement repairing it. It would be nice if I could order any parts needed but a lot of things would be nice that aren’t possible so I just look at it as a minor inconvenience and when I make a decision I do try to consider ability and ease of service as I do so. Perhaps I’ll get over the mail thing someday but darn we had a lot of stuff go MIA lately via US mail that we sold on flea bay and honestly that was not happening at all during the USPS bashing thread.
At lest there are many options and alternatives with watches, you can’t always get what you want but if you try sometimes I’ve found, you get what you need.
At lest there are many options and alternatives with watches, you can’t always get what you want but if you try sometimes I’ve found, you get what you need.
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SkunkPrince
·I guess I'm not going to sell you a coaxial, then. 😁
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