Omega chronograph movements over the years

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I would date my Omega example to 1943. Therefore it is conceivable that in 1945/46 a new balance had been adopted.
 
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I would date my Omega example to 1943. Therefore it is conceivable that in 1945/46 a new balance had been adopted.

As the listing with a nickel balance dates from 1944 I tend to disagree.
I would rather assume that they made versions with either type of balance?
Was Omega more conservative? Requesting an old school type balance fitted?

This was during WW2, so access to metal alloys may also have been restricted?

Actually never seen a Lemania CH27 with a bi-metallic balance.
 
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As the listing with a nickel balance dates from 1944 I tend to disagree.
I would rather assume that they made versions with either type of balance?
Was Omega more conservative? Requesting an old school type balance fitted?

This was during WW2, so access to metal alloys may also have been restricted?

Actually never seen a Lemania CH27 with a bi-metallic balance.
I am not sure I have ever seen a compensating balance wheel on a Lemania CH27 in my nearly forty years of watchmaking, either. However, I have seen a few Omega CH27 with such a balance type.
 
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The base caliber for the 27CH, the S27 was never supplied with a compensated balance according to my parts lists.

And the “1930s” caliber 13CH was available with both options.
As such Lemania had obviously started using nickel/ balances in the 1930s/early 1940s.

Omega held on to compensated balances on their 30mm movements until 1949/1950.
Was this an Omega “standard”?
Lemania would easily adopt their design to requests from big bro Omega.
Is this a case of Omega being bigger and slower to adopt?
 
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The base caliber for the 27CH, the S27 was never supplied with a compensated balance according to my parts lists.

And the “1930s” caliber 13CH was available with both options.
As such Lemania had obviously started using nickel/ balances in the 1930s/early 1940s.

Omega held on to compensated balances on their 30mm movements until 1949/1950.
Was this an Omega “standard”?
Lemania would easily adopt their design to requests from big bro Omega.
Is this a case of Omega being bigger and slower to adopt?

Actually, also Omega chronometers appear to have been late in adopting new balances. With respect to technical reasons, they might have been several and in order to shed some light it would be interesting to have access to the documents related to the concours international de chronométrie in the late Forties.
 
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Actually, also Omega chronometers appear to have been late in adopting new balances. With respect to technical reasons, they might have been several and in order to shed some light it would be interesting to have access to the documents related to the concours international de chronométrie in the late Forties.
Absolutely!

I do not know enough about the development and marketing of pre-war Omega movements.
However I get this feeling that well made compensated balances could have been something they had been promoting as a "Omega sign of quality" in the past, and the "new" style nickel balances took some time to accept.
The milestone Omega caliber 330, introduced in 1943, seems to have been equipped with a nickel balance, so it was obviously a thing coming at that time.

Omega was an extremely conservative and risk averse company.
My thoughts leaps to the development of the worlds first automatic wrist chronograph, the Lemania 27CH-c12-A, completed in 1947.
As an article by Gregory Pons states it:
"Almost a quarter of a century before Zenith and Dubois Dépraz, the Lémania manufacture was working on the development of an automatic rotor chronograph, based on the famous CH 27 caliber. A pioneering chronograph that will be rejected by Omega in 1948, for fear that customers do not like the mechanical rattling of the thrust rotor (bumper!). Like what commercial conformity is a terrible handicap for brands that do not like to take risks." (Translated from an original article in french published in "Le quotidien de l'horlogerie, 23/02/2014).

Full article: https://businessmontres.com/article...hronographe-mecanique-a-remontage-automatique



Lemania never made another bumper movement, but went straight for a full rotor automatic with their cal 36xx introduced in 1951.

 
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Absolutely!

I do not know enough about the development and marketing of pre-war Omega movements.
However I get this feeling that well made compensated balances could have been something they had been promoting as a "Omega sign of quality" in the past, and the "new" style nickel balances took some time to accept.
The milestone Omega caliber 330, introduced in 1943, seems to have been equipped with a nickel balance, so it was obviously a thing coming at that time.

Omega was an extremely conservative and risk averse company.
My thoughts leaps to the development of the worlds first automatic wrist chronograph, the Lemania 27CH-c12-A, completed in 1947.
As an article by Gregory Pons states it:
"Almost a quarter of a century before Zenith and Dubois Dépraz, the Lémania manufacture was working on the development of an automatic rotor chronograph, based on the famous CH 27 caliber. A pioneering chronograph that will be rejected by Omega in 1948, for fear that customers do not like the mechanical rattling of the thrust rotor (bumper!). Like what commercial conformity is a terrible handicap for brands that do not like to take risks." (Translated from an original article in french published in "Le quotidien de l'horlogerie, 23/02/2014).

Full article: https://businessmontres.com/article...hronographe-mecanique-a-remontage-automatique


Lemania never made another bumper movement, but went straight for a full rotor automatic with their cal 36xx introduced in 1951.

I tend to agree. My experience with Omega has been that of a middle-of-the-road company, at least from the late Seventies to the late Nineties. However, in order to depict a full picture of the development of movements, an historian should make reference to internal drawings and documents which, I suspect, might not be available any more.
 
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I tend to agree. My experience with Omega has been that of a middle-of-the-road company, at least from the late Seventies to the late Nineties. However, in order to depict a full picture of the development of movements, an historian should make reference to internal drawings and documents which, I suspect, might not be available any more.
I'd be willing to bet that such documents are just sequestered in the warehouses of the brands in question. They just never get looked through and digitized as not many care as much as we do about small details like this.
 
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I'd be willing to bet that such documents are just sequestered in the warehouses of the brands in question. They just never get looked through and digitized as not many care as much as we do about small details like this.
And the 27CH papers would have been with Lemania in L´Orient rather than in Bienne as well.
It could be that the something still exists, but after Swatch converted Nouvelle Lemania into Manufacture Breguet, they have not been very eager to talk about Lemanias heritage and past anymore. Storytelling is a big part of marketing.....
The good thing is that the old Lemania factory still exists, as Breguet. Perhaps historical records are not all lost.
 
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As such I would maintain that my example Lemania is a very early one.
Earliest Lemania from my photo archive is serial #337. Tissot serial dates it to 1942.
 
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Earliest Lemania from my photo archive is serial #337. Tissot serial dates it to 1942.
Thanks for sharing! The Lemania serial 132 is in my collection. Bought it in Switzerland some months ago.
I have always considered the CH27 to be a 1943 and onwards caliber, however looking at my caliber listings it is actually stating 1942 as first production year.
Learning something new every day!
😀👍



I also spotted a low serial CH27 some time ago on ebay. Dial marked Hausmann (Italian watch retailer - https://www.hausmann-co.com/):


Edit: Still up for sale here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LEMANIA-...191272?hash=item5d8872eb68:g:CIoAAOSwtgZcBqIW

I think someone should grab it fast....
 
This website may earn commission from Ebay sales.
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Earliest Lemania from my photo archive is serial #337. Tissot serial dates it to 1942.
Thank you. Unfortunately the balance wheel is spinning and the type cannot be assessed.
 
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I think someone should grab it fast....
Unfortunately some parts have been improperly fixed and the movement does not look in good conditions.
 
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Unfortunately some parts have been improperly fixed and the movement does not look in good conditions.
True! It does appear to have been exposed to an "Italian Job".
Not entirely hopeless to get back into shape I presume, but not a mint example for sure.
The early serial does however make it interesting, and they are open for offers....

At least the balance is of nickel type.
 
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True! It does appear to have been exposed to an "Italian Job".
Not entirely hopeless to get back into shape I presume, but not a mint example for sure.
The early serial does however make it interesting, and they are open for offers....

At least the balance is of nickel type.
Yes, it can be restored, even of it is not a cheap job. However, for historical reasons a cut balance wheel would preferable. It would costituite a true example of first generation 27CH!
 
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Yes, it can be restored, even of it is not a cheap job. However, for historical reasons a cut balance wheel would preferable. It would costituite a true example of first generation 27CH!
Not sure we fully agree 😉.
I am trying to find a Lemania CH27 (and not an Omega badged) movement, using a "cut balance wheel". No luck so far.
As discussed earlier I suspect that the old style "cut balance wheel" was perhaps an "Omega version only" thing?

Pity the Tissot, referenced earlier in this thread, could not be verified as to what type of balance it has.
I suspect it will have a nickel one as well.
Comparing the above, you will see that both my Lemania, and the Hausmann, has got nickel balance wheels.
I have several, relative early, CH27 in my collection, but none as low in serial as the above.

I would appreciate if you find any information that contradicts my theory.
😀
 
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Not sure we fully agree 😉.
I am trying to find a Lemania CH27 (and not an Omega badged) movement, using a "cut balance wheel". No luck so far.
As discussed earlier I suspect that the old style "cut balance wheel" was perhaps an "Omega version only" thing?

Pity the Tissot, referenced earlier in this thread, could not be verified as to what type of balance it has.
I suspect it will have a nickel one as well.
Comparing the above, you will see that both my Lemania, and the Hausmann, has got nickel balance wheels.
I have several, relative early, CH27 in my collection, but none as low in serial as the above.

I would appreciate if you find any information that contradicts my theory.
😀
You may well be right. My experience is mostly, if not exclusively, with early Omega CH27.
It would be interesting to collect more evidence, if available.
Edited:
 
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Thank you. Unfortunately the balance wheel is spinning and the type cannot be assessed.
The earliest Lemania in my photo archive with a stationary balance is #396:
 
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The earliest Lemania in my photo archive with a stationary balance is #396:
That is contemporary with the other Tissot movement, and has got a solid balance. 👍
As serial 337 has been confirmed by Tissot to be from 1942, I believe this is a strong indication that very early 27CH movements was delivered with solid nickel balance as well as the (Omega?) version with split balance.
The serial numbers on early Tissot cal 27CH movements are actually Lemania serial numbers.
Later on Tissot had their own serial numbers marked on the chrono bridge as seen below.
 
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The serial numbers on early Tissot cal 27CH movements are actually Lemania serial numbers.
Yes, the Tissot CH27 based chronographs have both the Lemania serial and the Tissot serial. From 1942-1944, Tissot placed their serial on the inside caseback. By 1945, Tissot had switched over to a case reference system and placed their serial on the bridge as you show above.

The Lemania #396 shown above is also from 1942 according to the Tissot caseback serial.