Omega chronograph movements over the years

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I've already called shotgun on the next one to turn up 😒, I've been looking for years, literally every Lemania I look at, I check the movement just in case it has a golden ticket inside. I'll try to find some more of the pictures and post a separate thread sometime dedicated to it.

The bumper design is interesting as its almost completely outboard of the movement, but with the 27mm movement size they've got enough room to do it without making the watch too big, probably would have fitted in the Speedmaster if they'd wanted to make the Moonwatch automatic from the beginning.

Also note the engraving on the rotor:

"Premiere Chronographe A Remontage Automatique" - dated 28th October 1947

Which translates into English as:

"The First Self-Winding Chronograph"

Apparently it was simply a lack of demand for an automatic chronograph in the post-war years that lead to it being shelved before full production began, it was a sufficiently robust and reliable system, there was just no way to justify the added cost.

I have joked about selling members of the family and/or parts of my body in order to fund certain watches.
This just might be the one that sees it happen.....:whipped:

BTW: The CH27 - 27mm base also spanned the Lemania 36xx family of (rotor) automatics introduced in the mid 1950s.
 
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I have joked about selling members of the family and/or parts of my body in order to fund certain watches.
This just might be the one that sees it happen.....:whipped:

BTW: The CH27 - 27mm base also spanned the Lemania 36xx family of (rotor) automatics introduced in the mid 1950s.
Wouldn't have been anywhere near as pretty though with a rotor blocking the movement, nor as unique, I think this is probably still the only bumper automatic chronograph design ever attempted which adds even more to coolness of it.
 
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Wouldn't have been anywhere near as pretty though with a rotor blocking the movement, nor as unique, I think this is probably still the only bumper automatic chronograph design ever attempted.
There might have been reasons why it never went past prototypes. However to be able to study it in the flesh would have been something!
Until then I guess this article is the best we can do with:
http://www.businessmontres.com/lesl...ier-chronographe-mecanique-a-remontage-automa
 
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There are two older articles that offer a bit more detail, both were in Italian from memory and a discussion on O&P from many years ago with some good information.

This quote from that article though sums up why it didn't end up in production:

Early in the following year, in January 1948 (document below ), a series of ten CH27-C12A movements comes to Omega for evaluation spread over one year. After one year, the Omega experts give their verdict: although considered mechanically reliable, the "flip-flop" oscillator is not commercially recoverable. In itself, the automatic watch is far from unanimous among fans. A fortiori, an automatic chronograph! The shock of the mass against the stops seem to displease the consumers, who feel that something is out of whack in the watch. For its own chronograph, Omega will only continue operating the hand-wound 27 CH (Omega Cal. 321), excellent tractor used by many other brands, including Patek Philippe.

Which isn't surprising given when people come here with a bumper even today we ask them "does it feel like there's a coin or something bouncing around inside the movement" to confirm its a bumper.

It could have become a defining moment in Omega's history though if in 1948 on their 100th Anniversary they'd released their first bumper auto chronograph along side their first bumper auto dress watch in the OT2499/2500 Centenary models. Maybe the El Primero would have become the El Segundo... maybe it still should? 😀
 
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There are two older articles that offer a bit more detail, both were in Italian from memory and a discussion on O&P from many years ago with some good information.

This quote from that article though sums up why it didn't end up in production:



Which isn't surprising given when people come here with a bumper even today we ask them "does it feel like there's a coin or something bouncing around inside the movement" to confirm its a bumper.

It could have become a defining moment in Omega's history though if in 1948 on their 100th Anniversary they'd released their first bumper auto chronograph along side their first bumper auto dress watch in the OT2499/2500 Centenary models. Maybe the El Primero would have become the El Segundo... maybe it still should? 😀

And only now that I thought to have completed my collection of early Swiss automatic chronographs with the 3019PHC, Breitling C12 and Omega 1040 does this appear? My collection will never be complete without one, and as a result never complete at all if the gods don't allow me to win the big lottery....
 
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I would say that the CH27 comes after the S27. There is a passage, I believe in the "Omega Saga", where this is mentioned. I need to check back home.

The 27A caliber is from the Lemania WWW watch made to chronometer grade spec for the British War Department in 1944 (delivered in the spring of 1945). You will find the complete photo documented service log here: http://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/library?action=show_photos&wat_id=927
The movement, including the balance, is believed to be original to the watch, and resembles that of other known examples.
Have you got any picture of the examples you mention?
The adoption of screwless balance wheels for chronometers is a very interesting story not exhaustively documented.
 
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Have you got any picture of the examples you mention?
The adoption of screwless balance wheels for chronometers is a very interesting story not exhaustively documented.
It's not a screwless balance wheel. Just the pictures were taken in darker lighting with the wheel spinning. You can see the screws in one of the pictures on the watchguy's page.
 
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The shock of the mass against the stops seem to displease the consumers, who feel that something is out of whack in the watch.
And only now that I thought to have completed my collection of early Swiss automatic chronographs with the 3019PHC, Breitling C12 and Omega 1040 does this appear? My collection will never be complete without one, and as a result never complete at all if the gods don't allow me to win the big lottery....
There's brief mentioning of this movement in AJTT with the reason as "superfluous". I think the "customers' displeasure" was not really logical as Omega used the bumper mechanism for more than a decade. And they could have always designed a full rotor if they wanted to. Most likely, there was not enough demand for an automatic chronograph back then, as it was quite ahead of its time.

Do you see anything about it in Omega Saga?

Edited:
 
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It's not a screwless balance wheel. Just the pictures were taken in darker lighting with the wheel spinning. You can see the screws in one of the pictures on the watchguy's page.

Thank you. I did not notice the wheel spinning. However, the first screwless balance adopted in regular production seems to have been that of the caliber 482 in 1959 (about 17 mil serial). There must have been earlier prototypes, which I vaguely remember but I cannot date exactly.
 
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Just bumping this thread because its one of my favourites with a lot of cool stuff in it. I still haven't seen any more CH27 automatics sadly 🙁
 
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Just bumping this thread because its one of my favourites with a lot of cool stuff in it. I still haven't seen any more CH27 automatics sadly 🙁

Thanks, I missed it earlier, some great reading.
 
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What a thing of beauty. Heard of it but never saw it until now.

In regards to the Omega chronograph production prior to Lemania, there is evolution as time passed even between these little discussed movements.
There are at least a couple 19" CHRO variants. And while the 39 CHRO is said to be an improved 18" CHRO, parts do not interchange. It is hard to pick a favorite but here a 3 set of the 30 min chrono version:



As for the 1932 onwards production, I was curious to learn if the Omega 33.3 was delivered in other then wrist watch cases, considering the 15TL did.
Edited:
 
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Dears,
Thank you very much for as always to discussions, these are always quite useful.

I am a watch enthusiast in Japan and recently my interests are in omega 1045 and omega chronograph history - and I encountered this thread. Yes, I also had the similar question. Why CH13/CH15 and 27-CHRO is so different.
And today, I concluded I may have some insight to this question.

Seems Lemania CH13/15TL is quite similar to Excelsior park - This was actually, indicated from Hajime Asaoka, a independent watchmaker in Tokyo and I studied his indication for a while - the appearance seems to be different, but the chronograph mechanism seems to be totally same. He firstly noticed to that, both calibers' rotate direction of column wheel is different from the typical others as well as the column wheel fixed screw winding direction.

Here is the picture (I borrowed from nakahiro tokeikan as well as Asaoka-san - http://nakahiro.parfait.ne.jp/shasinkan/07.html http://nakahiro.parfait.ne.jp/shasinkan/10.html )

Hope this may help some.
 
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Dear Yoshio-San,

Interesting side-by-side comparison of two movements I hold in high esteem!
The counter clockwise pointing balance is a good observation.

You will find the same layout also on Lemania cal 19 and 24, which I suspect was used as basis/inspiration for scaling down size to the cal 15..
Apart from these, there seems to be few chronograph movements out there with the balance located to the right side of the crown.
A notable exception is the Buren, Hamilton, Breitling, Heuer cal 11/12, but that is an entire different thing.


Excelsior Park caliber JB40 and Lemania caliber 13/15 was developed by separate organizations. Common for these is that they where developed first for use in pocket watches, then later modified for use in wristwatches.
The Lemania cal 15 was available both for wrist and pocket watches:

The monopusher variant, CHT, seems to only have been available as a wristwatch movement:


Finding some connecting points between Lemania and Excelsior Park would have surely been interesting, but I have seen none suggested or documented.

Albert Piguet, technical head of Lemania, was given the go-ahead to develop the 27CH in the early 1940s. The first production model was released in 1942/43.
The caliber 27CH/CHRO was developed "from scratch", based on the Lemania S27 caliber (not related to the S27A used in the WWW watches, that is actually a Tissot caliber).
Here is a picture of an early version (serial #132).


You will see the absence of a shock protection system. This came a couple of years later.
Edited:
 
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Here is a picture of an early version (serial #132).

You will see the absence of a shock protection system. This came a couple of years later.
Not so early, actually. The very first version was equipped with a cut balance wheel.
 
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Not so early, actually. The very first version was equipped with a cut balance wheel.
Sure?
My Lemania fornitures list of 1944 shows these:

Eager to learn!
😉
 
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Sure?
My Lemania fornitures list of 1944 shows these:

Eager to learn!
😉

Yes. Here is a very early Omega version with balance wheel 6541. 😀

20jjnf8.jpg
 
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Yes. Here is a very early Omega version with balance wheel 6541. 😀

20jjnf8.jpg
Interesting.
Keen to understanding why they used the bi-metallic balance rather than a nickel/Invar one in a “modern” design.
Just plain old Swiss conservatism?
I have never seen an un-numbered Lemania CH27, and I have confirmed serials 12.xxx for 1946.
As such I would maintain that my example Lemania is a very early one.
The below example is of the watch gifted to Winston Churchill in 1946.