Omega Cal 504 No Amplitude

[Brett2444]

Hi All,

I picked up a broken Cal 504 that had a broken hairspring, I ordered a new balance (500-1327) with pivots and fitted it without issue however now facing pretty much no amplitude...

I've not stripped and cleaned this movement yet, however the train runs pretty freely.
Here is a video (Sorry for the horrendous quality, I'll try get another one)

In the video I show three things
1) Balance with the pallet fork, very low amplitude
2) No balance and pallet fork, train runs ok
3) No pallet fork, balance seems to spin freely

Seems like something is very wrong with either the pallet fork or the balance, and wondering if any pros can point me in the right direction?

 

[masteroftime]

Have you cleaned the balance jewels? I find that often can have a big impact if there was previous shock damage or the jewels are very dirty.

Also, have you taken a closer look at the pallet fork?

 

[Brett2444]

Balance jewels were cleaned with One Dip solution and look good. Pallet fork looks ok I’ll try get a close up image

maybe my next step is just a full disassembly and clean.

 

[rendo]

I'm not an expert, but could this be due to having a massive beat error? When the balance wheel stopped at the end of the video (without the pallet fork), did the impulse jewel stop somewhere in between the banking pins?

Regardless of the issue, a full service and close inspection of all the parts would be a good start in my opinion.

 

[Archer]

You should service the movement, and I strongly recommend that you do not let a watch free spin down like you did in that video. I wouldn't even do that when it's freshly serviced and oiled, let alone when the pivots are likely dry and contaminated. I suggest you carefully check the condition of all the pivots when you disassemble and clean the movement.

 

[Canuck]

One-Dip is NOT a substitute for a cleaning solution when removing cruddy, varnished old oil!

 

[Pvt-Public]

Canuck

One-Dip is NOT a substitute for a cleaning solution when removing cruddy, varnished old oil!

But doesn’t One-Dip and WD-40 fix everything.

 

[Caliber561]

Could be a mainspring issue? Perhaps the spring isn't the correct type, or insufficient breaking grade was used?

 

[Brett2444]

Thank you all for the help.
I will start with full disassembly and service with cleaning

Archer

You should service the movement, and I strongly recommend that you do not let a watch free spin down like you did in that video. I wouldn't even do that when it's freshly serviced and oiled, let alone when the pivots are likely dry and contaminated. I suggest you carefully check the condition of all the pivots when you disassemble and clean the movement.

thanks I appreciate these tips

rendo

I'm not an expert, but could this be due to having a massive beat error? When the balance wheel stopped at the end of the video (without the pallet fork), did the impulse jewel stop somewhere in between the banking pins?

Regardless of the issue, a full service and close inspection of all the parts would be a good start in my opinion.

I’ll check where it ends up but I hope not, I don’t have experience changing beat error on a balance with weights and no adjustment at the stud. I was hoping a NOS omega balance would just be good from the package

 

[Canuck]

Don’t waste your money and your time by using One-Dip!

 

[Brett2444]

Canuck

Don’t waste your money and your time by using One-Dip!

I typically use it only on the hair spring as I don’t use that in the ultrasonic.
But that is for the tip.
I have disassembled the entire movement and will run it through the cleaning machine later today and hope for the best.

the pallet fork is a bit rough looking and hope I don’t need to replace it as it’s an expensive part and hard to source locally in Australia.

I do have a couple of 501 and a 503 movement I could pinch one from to test though.

 

[Archer]

Brett2444

the pallet fork is a bit rough looking

What specifically is rough looking about it?

Can’t emphasize enough that the parts need to be in top condition. Every pivot needs to be looked at under high magnification to determine if they are worn or damaged. If they are not parallel and shiny, then you won’t get the correct performance out of the movement.

Small things matter...

 

[Brett2444]

Did a full dissasembly and run through the cleaning machine, found a few issues.
The pallet fork doesn't look great as I mentioned, the pivots are worn but not terrible, the jewels just look strange, almost colourless which is new to me, compared to a new 565 pallet fork for example.
I'll post some photos when I can get a good macro shot.

Another one was the barrel arbor, the notch that holds the mainspring had actually snapped and was floating around in the barrel, so it would slip when wound and therefore was likely not holding a full wind.

Im going to try source a new barrel and pallet fork which might take a while as ebay prices are too high. I have the three spare 501/503 movements but I don't want to part those out for this restoration.

I guess I can do some updates once I source some parts.
Thanks all for the help so far!

 

[Brett2444]

Gave the movement a good clean in the meantime while I source some parts.
I noticed when the crown is in the second position (To set the hour/minutes) it has a bit of resistance, and I can see that it also spins the barrel as if the winding mechanism is not disengaged. I can't immediately see how this could be happening.
I assume this is not the expected behaviour of this movement?
This is the first 50X movement I have done, most of my work is with 56X and 55X movements and never had this occur.

Going to look at some reviews for some microscopes/digital microscopes so I can start inspecting and taking closer photos.

 

[Archer]

Brett2444

I noticed when the crown is in the second position (To set the hour/minutes) it has a bit of resistance, and I can see that it also spins the barrel as if the winding mechanism is not disengaged. I can't immediately see how this could be happening.

In this scenario, have you installed the pallet fork yet? The only way it should be happening is if the pallet fork is not installed. If the pallet fork is installed and the barrel and train are spinning as you move the hands, then you need to check the condition of the pallet fork for obvious problems, then do a full set of escapement checks. The escapement may need adjusting.

Regarding the friction of the hand setting, this is controlled by the cannon pinion. It is normal for it to have some resistance, but it shouldn't feel excessive - it should feel much like the other movements you have serviced. Did you apply any lubrication to the center wheel before pressing the cannon pinion in place? If not, remove it and add a spot of grease where the crimp is going to line up on the cannon pinion. If you did and it still feels too tight, then you may have to open up the inside of the cannon pinion with a cutting or smoothing broach.

 

[Brett2444]

Thanks Archer, I always appreciate your valuable help.
The pallet fork was installed in that scenario. I'll do some closer checks to the escapement.
For the friction hand setting, I use Moebius 9501, is there something you would recommend there?

 

[Archer]

Brett2444

Thanks Archer, I always appreciate your valuable help.
The pallet fork was installed in that scenario. I'll do some closer checks to the escapement.
For the friction hand setting, I use Moebius 9501, is there something you would recommend there?

I use 9504, but 9501 should work fine.