Omega 30SCT2 18 jewel, anybody?

hoipolloi · Mar 12, 2019

Hi all.
Besides collecting watches, I also collecting unique dials and movements, too. (30T1SC or 30T2SC with 18 jewel etc...)
This thread is only about the 30SCT2 that had 18 jewels in it.(well, you cannot find 18 jewel in 26x or 28x or 30T2 anyways).
The famous RCAF Techron is powered by 30SCT2 18 jewel as in the advertisement

And a member from Purists (Ben Degeus) wrote that
"...Ken Hatch Ltd. the Canadian agent in Quebec had ordered 500 pieces in 1941 (with follow-on orders a little later). Due to the difficult war conditions however, shipping took only place end '44 and early '45..."
Those 18 jewel movements were serialed 9.x millions.
This is the RCAF 18 jewels I have

And this is another RCAF which was sold in this forum.

Besides the 500 movements used on RCAF, 18 jewel were also found inside the famous stepped lug 2254 with "military dial"

It was also found inside double reference 2410/2423.

And the earliest 18 jewels that I have has serial number 9.2 mil. very close to the rare 30SCT1.

That is all I know about the 18 jewels . You are welcome to share what you have and info that I missed.
But please don't show off your normal 30 mm with gold cases coming with a redial 😁.
Thanks for reading.

Hoi.

Dr No · Mar 12, 2019

I have two ref 2242s, Hoi, with 18 jewel 30T2SC movements.

Judging by the narrow spread in movement numbers, these two were produced simultaneously. The one on the right was probably shipped to the Brazilian agent . . .

. . . judging by the red star, and the one on the left . . .

[seller's photo]

. . . was sourced in Australia.

The extra two jewels are clear rather than ruby, and positioned on both sides of the hour wheel.

Ben's conversation with the Omega museum, if memory serves correct, established the 18 jewel versions as options offered to agencies with two, the Canadian and Brazilian, taking them up on it. My Brazilian example has a stuttering seconds hand that hasn't been amenable to correction yet despite efforts by two watchmakers, and I'm not sure if the Australian example has an original dial. But given they're practically siblings - movement and case numbers are within two figures of each other - they're staying together in my collection forever.

Art

mac_omega · Mar 12, 2019

Sorry guys,

not all facts are true in your posts.

@hoipolloi: don´t mix up the 2 versions

1) the Techron had the much earlier movement lacking a shock-protection
These movements had a bad galvanic coating which turned dark very fast.

2) the watch you called "2254 with military dial" is not a 2254 (altough stamped in the caseback) - it is a cross-reference to 2254 and its correct reference is CK 2337 (although not stamped but verified in the Omega archive). Only the chronometer has the ref. CK 2254.
It has a different movement: 18 jewel - yes, but with Incabloc and much better galvanic plating - they often shine like new even after 70 years.
Also the CK 2423 had this later type of movement.

@Dr No:

1) the 2 extra jewels were not positioned on both sides of the hour wheel but are the lower and upper jewels for the centre wheel
2) "Techrons" with black and silvered dials were not only shipped to RCAF and Brazil but all over the world - have come across data for watches sent to South Africa (confirmed by Omega).

The red star is just a marketing gag and is found on several watches, not only the Techron.

You will find all this stuff in detail in my book... you have to be patient for just a few weeks - the book will go to print next week.

kind regards

erich

Dr No · Mar 12, 2019

Sorry, Erich, my bad - it is the center wheel, right in the center of the plate!

Art

hoipolloi · Mar 12, 2019

Hi Erich.

Name it whatever you like but this case ref is 2254.

And if you try to label it in a different reference , I am sorry, I won't buy your book 😁.

Hoi.

OMEGuy · Mar 12, 2019

hoipolloi
Hi Erich.

Name it whatever you like but this case ref is 2254.

And if you try to label it in a different reference , I am sorry, I won't buy your book 😁.

Hoi.

Regardless of the reference and books to come, your watch is stunning! 👍

mac_omega · Mar 12, 2019

hoipolloi
Hi Erich.

Name it whatever you like but this case ref is 2254.

And if you try to label it in a different reference , I am sorry, I won't buy your book 😁.

Hoi.

Hoi,

you should read my answer in detail, not just superficially...

I don´t try to "label" as you commented...

The reference 2337 is confirmed by the Omega archive - its not my invention or assumption...

They used up surplus cases of 2254 and equipped them with a different movement but did not stamp the new reference number in the case.

It is the same with CK 2410: some received their new reference number 2423 but not all of them - you can find confirmed (by the Omega archive) pieces of ref. 2423 which just have 2410 in the caseback and the 18 J movemet with Incabloc.

I know it is hard for you to accept opinions from fellow collectors when they contradict.

Do you really think I am going to publish a book without consulting the Omega archive - I am not a fool - all data are confirmed

AJTT is full of errors - you might know already - so don´t rely on the "bible" too much...

durri70 · Mar 12, 2019

I love the dial on the right side (the one on the advertising ...

hoipolloi · Mar 12, 2019

mac_omega
@hoipolloi: don´t mix up the 2 versions

1) the Techron had the much earlier movement lacking a shock-protection
These movements had a bad galvanic coating which turned dark very fast.

2) the watch you called "2254 with military dial" is not a 2254 (altough stamped in the caseback) - it is a cross-reference to 2254 and its correct reference is CK 2337 (although not stamped but verified in the Omega archive). Only the chronometer has the ref. CK 2254.
It has a different movement: 18 jewel - yes, but with Incabloc and much better galvanic plating - they often shine like new even after 70 years.
Also the CK 2423 had this later type of movement.

I don't think I mixed up anything here, everybody may already know old coatings are bad and newer coatings would last longer, the earlier versions did not have shock protection and the later did.
The same thing is applied to the normal 30T2 without 18 jewels,

......

I have not ever considered AJTT as a "bible" and I am not an idiot to take your book as one. I also think it is stupid to believe guys from Omega and rely on what they say to write a book.
I am happy to buy a book from your own collecting experience, not from what you heard and copy from Omega Museum guys.

Regards.

hoipolloi · Mar 12, 2019

durri70
I love the dial on the right side (the one on the advertising ...

That one has 17 jewels and not included in my discussion.

Tony C. · Mar 12, 2019

I also think it is stupid to believe guys from Omega and rely on what they say to write a book.
I am happy to buy a book from your own collecting experience, not from what you heard and copy from Omega Museum guys.

C'mon, Hoi, you can do better than that. Omega states that the non-chronometer watches in the 2254 cases are, in fact, ref. 2337, and you think it is "stupid" to believe them?

It is true that manufacturers can get details wrong, and Erich would certainly admit that. But this is really a straightforward issue, unless you have an argument beyond the ref. that is stamped on the case.

Furthermore, if you imagine that Erich has authored a book based on what he "heard" and copied from Omega, you are way off base. Erich is a passionate collector, and an academic, and has studied Omega chromometres for decades. His book is a product of serious research, and will no doubt prove to be authoritative.

hoipolloi · Mar 12, 2019

Anybody owns a ref 2337 please post a photo. I tried to google it but found nothing.
Should I consider mine as a 2337 ( stamped 2254)? because they told me to believe so. 😁

Dr No · Mar 12, 2019

mac_omega
Hoi,

you should read my answer in detail, not just superficially...

I don´t try to "label" as you commented...

The reference 2337 is confirmed by the Omega archive - its not my invention or phantasy...

They used up left-over cases of 2254 and equipped them with a different movement but did not stamp the new reference number in the case.

It is the same with CK 2410: some received their new reference number 2423 but not all of them - you can find confirmed (by the Omega archive) pieces of ref. 2423 which just have 2410 in the caseback and the 18 J movemet with Incabloc.

I know it is hard for you to accept opinions from fellow collectors when they contradict.

Do you really think I am going to publish a book without consulting the Omega archive - I am not a fool - all data are confirmed

AJTT is full of errors - you might know already - so don´t rely on the "bible" too much...

Here's a link to a thread on Watchprosite . . .

https://www.watchprosite.com/page-wf.forumpost/fi-677/ti-1205986/dv-true/wf.responses.open_bLoB_s-0/

. . . re double reference 2410 / 2423.

Art

JimInOz · Mar 13, 2019

And just like AJTT, you can not believe everything you see in print.

MSNWatch · Mar 13, 2019

I think what Erich has put together regarding the 30mm book and this topic in particular is based on the best evidence that exists - a direct review of omega's records. It is of course fine to disagree but you'll need to provide higher quality evidence to support the alternative point of view.

Archer · Mar 13, 2019

mac_omega
1) the 2 extra jewels were not positioned on both sides of the hour wheel but are the lower and upper jewels for the centre wheel

Thank you - my eye wouldn't stop twitching when I read that there are jewels on both sides of the hour wheel. 😉

Dr No · Mar 17, 2019

Archer
Thank you - my eye wouldn't stop twitching when I read that there are jewels on both sides of the hour wheel. 😉

Funny thing is, I've mentioned the additional jewels a few times, both here and on Watchprosite, and consistently wrote 'center wheel' in the description. Writing 'hour wheel' this time around was a brain fart!

:whipped:

Archer · Mar 17, 2019

I have one in the shop right now, and noted that the escape wheel and pallet fork are copper coloured.

Dr No · Mar 17, 2019

Archer
I have one in the shop right now, and noted that the escape wheel and pallet fork are copper coloured.

Very interesting. I checked photos of mine, and both pallet forks are steel. Can't see the escape wheels clearly enough to tell if they're copper plated.

I'm taking the Red Star 18 jewel 30T2SC in next week for seconds hand tension spring adjustment, and will take pics of the escape wheel.

Art

mac_omega · Mar 17, 2019

Archer
I have one in the shop right now, and noted that the escape wheel and pallet fork are copper coloured.

"Never say never" with Omega as the saying goes...

When I researched for my book at the Omega Museum they allowed me to take photos of a prototype movement on which they had tried to rose-gold plate all relevant steel parts of a chronometer movement 30 SC T2 Type 2, including ratchet- and crown-wheel, even the spokes of the balance... The outcome was not satisfying, so this never went to serial production.

Maybe the movement you service at the moment is one of the trial movements that "escaped into the wild"?

Omega 30SCT2 18 jewel, anybody?

hoipolloi

Dr No

mac_omega

Dr No

hoipolloi

OMEGuy

mac_omega

durri70

hoipolloi

hoipolloi

Tony C.

hoipolloi

Dr No

JimInOz

MSNWatch

Archer

Dr No

Archer

Dr No

mac_omega

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