Hello,
Just wondering if those in the know would rate the 863 18 Jewel movement over the 17 Jewel one. Is it that much better with the extra bush (or for how often this wears and causes issues it's no biggie from a buying point of view)?
The 3592.50 looks to have had both 17 and 18 used during its production.

 

Curious as well...

At some point they switched over to the Delrin (plastic) piece too.

 

The 18th jewel is in the coupling yoke for the chronograph. Here in an 861 it's a bushing:



In the versions with 18 jewels (like this 1861) it's a jewel:



The small wheel you see there is turning whenever the watch is running, but the loads on it are pretty small. Wear is not typically a big concern here, if it was they would have replaced both the upper and lower bushing with jewels. In this case they only replaced the upper bushing with a jewel, and the lower position still uses a bushing.

Cheers, Al

 

Thank you!

 

Archer, thanks very much for that.. really helpful!
Weirdly enough... I think a watch Ive been looking at has the top bush as a jewel, yet the plate is marked as "seventeen jewels".
I guess as ive read many times about this period, could be what got used was what was kicking about at the time in the "parts bin".... or has possibly been replaced.

 

Does anyone have a good pair of pics showing the steel vs derlin brake? Trying to train my eye..

I think this one is derlin..

 

I'm no expert, but the part is pretty obvious, at least on the pictures that I've seen:



(picture stolen from google search)

 

Isn't that movement for a display back model? In which case the brake should be metal, no?

:btuse::

 

Too many variations!

I was looking to purchase a more modern speedy a few months ago and I do remember the Delrin part always being very obvious.. But again, I'm no expert.

As an aside - If I were to get a newer speedy, I think that I would get a display back version... I don't really see a downside for 'modern' (post pre-moon caseback) speedmaster.

 

You can't get that part with a bushing anymore, so if for some reason it needed replacing, you would have the added jewel that would not be reflected in the engraving.

Cheers, Al

 

That is the steel one, and the hammer is all out of position for some odd reason...

Aside from the colour, the easiest way to tell is to look at the brake near the cam. The steel brake is actually in 2 parts, where the plastic brake is 1 part. On the steel brake, you can clearly see that it's one part laying on top of another as it looks stepped near the back end as I've noted at the red arrow:



The plastic brake does not have this step.

Cheers, Al

 

That's an 1861, so for the closed back model. The 1863 has Côtes de Genève on the plates...

 

Okay better photos to show the difference.

Plastic:



Steel:



Cheers, Al

 

Wow, great info. Thank you so much!

 

Awesome. That step is a great bit of info. Thank you sir!

 

Hello all, first time post. This example has me scratching my head. The description says "Delrin original brake", but to my (very uneducated) eye the movement photo seems to show a metal part. Any thoughts?

http://www.chrono24.com/en/omega/sp...1974--id4313349.htm?SETLANG=en_US&SETCURR=USD

Thanks to all you knowledgeable folks who make reading these forums so much fun!

 

The brake looks metal to me... although I'm no expert.

The dial is more concerning to me, it appears to be a C3 dial, which I just learned through an earlier thread is only found on 145.022-76s and later. I don't think it should be on a watch made in 1974 with a 32,xxx,xxx serial. That movement number and year of production should correspond to a 145.022-71 or -74, neither of which had the C3 dial. It's quite possibly a service dial... but again, see what the experts say.

It's tough to tell from the pictures, but the hand and plot lume seems washed out as well.

 

FYI: Here's the thread -

https://omegaforums.net/threads/some-speedmaster-post-purchase-nervousness.38876/

 

Wow, thanks, that makes for fascinating reading! Seems like there might have been quite a few original parts replaced during servicing. It makes me even more curious about the brake - if that's not quite right then the list of parts that are 'correct' on that example is getting pretty short!

 

Just to make things more confusing on the brake material issue, here's a shot of one of my 1861s that came out of the factory in 2010. The movement wasn't intended to be displayed and I'm guessing what we see here is a plastic brake that is coloured to look less plastic-like for whatever reason. You can click on the image to zoom in and see what appears to be a plastic-like texture for the brake, and that was my impression when I was looking at it while the watch was open.