No more project watches

I saw this point raised by another OF member recently, and it's caused me to reflect on my own experiences.

I've always tended towards the 'this watch is cool and cheap but has a bad dial - no worries, I'll just find a better dial to go with it' kind of thinking as a buyer. Not in all of my purchases, but a few. I have a lot of passion for watches but not a huge amount of money for pristine examples. As a result I always have a backlog of plans for parts purchases and trips to a watchmaker. Lots of project watches.

More recently I stumbled across one of those Huguenin Freres 'prototype speedmaster' cases through a part of the old Watchco network. I thought it would be a fun basis for a fantasy speedy build, along with other parts I'd accumulated along the way. I ended up sending my parts through to a watchmaker who was recommended by a highly reputable source. This person then disappeared and avoided all contact for about a year. Over recent weeks I've been able to resume contact; this person is now demanding hundreds of dollars for their 'time' to return the parts to me.

I find myself quite disillusioned at the moment; I look at my collection and see a lot of watches that need more work, watches that I don't want (bought for the parts), watches where I can only think of the hassle to get them repaired rather than the joy of owning and wearing them. Plus I get to add this experience of being ripped off, by the kind of expert I'm so reliant on to make projects happen.

I'm interested to hear the experiences of other members - what are your views on building a collection through project watches? What are the conditions where it works and doesn't work? Have I just had a bad run? Or are you sworn off project watches altogether?

If you don’t have the skills to work on them and network for parts, then project watches are a money pit and 90% of the time result in disappointment- I speak from experience. I always loved the “diamond on the rough” and got very good at spotting them (and some of my prized watches were indeed risky buys). But even with a trained eye, it’s a crap shoot.




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I think that projects can be fun, but within limits. If I take on a project, I try to make sure that I'm starting with the parts that will really give me upside potential. For example, I would almost never start a project without a good dial.

This is my weakness. There's usually an otherwise nice or exceptional watch with something missing. Or it could be a beater that had a rough life but be an interesting historical reference.

There's the allure of bringing something back to life and imaging that it will fade to ruin if someone doesn't do it.

All this while knowing that it'll either cost more than it's worth or be unrepairable. Classic cars taught me that it's cheaper to buy a car someone else restored than to do it yourself. But it's not as much fun.

For what it's worth, it is annoying and upsetting to hear about your experience with the disappearing watchmaker. That will taint any experience, whether a project watch or a pristine example. Perhaps a better watchmaker will restore some of the joy of this hobby.

I can recommend Ashton https://www.precisionhorology.com/

He's very thorough and a forum member. He's not inexpensive but you can have confidence he will fix it correctly. Finding someone you can work with may help.

All in all, the cost can add up. Better to have one orvtwo projects than stare at a basketfull of projects. The potential cost can overwhelm any good feelings. If you find yourself overwhelmed by projects, consider selling them cheaply or even giving away all but a few you really care about. It might help.

Hah. I am reminded of the 10,000 Tomato. An accountant takes a look at how much his home vegetable garden costs when amortized. Special soils, fertilizer, cost of the square footage of the garden box, water used. And of course the time spent tending the plant.

I could not conceive of having projects, If I was not able to spend the time and service them myself. The exception to this rule is the Speedmaster. Mostly because I do not have some of the special tools or access to quality parts. Ironically I have the same similar movement in a Tissot and Lemana format.

The speedy was my everyday watch when I was working. I scratched the crystal. I have it. It was the one watch I wanted. It will always be THE WATCH. On the other hand it has become more of a burden in a way. Not as easy to have fun with. The Tachometer scale is also chipped in places. There are holes in the lume. It is an 851 movement, I lost the engraved back so it has an older back with the wrong number on it. Still it is my watch and I have had it 30 years or so. It has sat in the box for 18 or more years. So what if it sits in the box indefinitely. If I did not have it I would want it.

The chronostop and the Alarm (memomatic.) watch are probably at the edge of my skill limit. I may have serviced them myself when my friend was teaching me watchmaking on the side.

One thing I would do over with 30 years of hindsight would be to have acquired watches with cases. Which is sort of a self re-enforcing paradigm. As many cases were scrapped in the 1970s and 1980s for their metal content. Ironically metal prices were low in the dot com era. On the other hand there were a lot of people opening the cash for old jewly shops in the old strip malls. Price did creep back up in the early 2000s.

At the time dials did not concern me much. I was working with laser printing and other prepress stuff. Dial condition is something that has become important in the last decade or so. I have noted in other threads it is the dial which is produces with similar tech to fiat currency. So dial replication is a form of counterfeiting. ( a subject unto itself.)

When I collected before I ignored the dial, as I can repaint any dial I want. Downside is the dies used can produce 1000s of images. The one off laser methods do not have the precision as the gravier methods.

This leaves the movements. I am happy if the watch ticks and keeps time within 5 or 10 minutes a day. Most of the time I will wind the watch and wear it for a few hours when I am out in public. Ironically I have been playing with the dark side and charging the cheap goodwill apple smart watches.

I did get a lot of date and automatic movements. Now I am soft on these. Especially the date. One of my favorites is a Baylor/Heuer triple calendar. I had a third party service this when I was off chasing pipe organs and film cameras. Since the service, I have not favored it as much as I used to. It is easy to scratch the crystal.

More recently I have been having fun with the Wakmann A Schild watch, I made from random parts found in my drawer on Christmas. That was a case where I noticed I had a great dial. I also have the Delbana Chronograph which I cleaned again last winter. That one though required a new dial and almost a compete ceaseless second watch. A third dial and I am back up to having a dozen Landeron movements.

Sometime in the next week I am expecting 25 more watches. Which prompted the OPs quote about these cheap 2 buck watches often turn out to me the most expensive. Still I find it entertaining.

More of it is about the anticipation of the watch than the actuality. It is hard enough to choose between the 5 watches on my desk which to wear today. I have some old pocket repeaters in the drawer. Case less. One I was going to make new pinions for, so acquired wheel cutting machinery. I noticed similar movements selling for not much more than I paid 25 years ago.

Case making probably IS easier than hairspring work. Both though require some pretty sophisticated machinery and metal founding ability.

I also have the money pit of the Heuer chronograph. While I did get a new hairspring. That one is taking a break. It is not going anywhere. Sure it would have been fun had it run again. In some ways projects like that are more winter projects. When it is cold and dark outside.

My friend sold me the CNC to prove a point. Which was that it takes more than pressing a button to make the parts. Here it is 25 years (and many distractions.) later and I am still looking at the same stuff. With the same quickening of anticipation. Not to mention many of the same distractions.

I think it is what keeps us moving forward ...

I sometimes undertake projects but I have some guidelines I follow (I say guidelines, writing them down here is the first time I’ve actually though about it, but it turns out I do have a modus operandi).

1. only consider a project for rare/unusual watches. For normal vintage pieces, condition, condition, condition still stands and I almost always prefer to wait and buy a very good example to start with.
2. I prefer complete watches, or those I either already have most of the parts for, or have a lead on what I need.
3. I work to my strengths or those within my network. For example, for an uncommon dial type I’ll consider one with poor/missing/mouldy lume as I live two hours from James Hyman and his lume work is second to none.
I have experience with several good watchmakers in the UK who are sympathetic to vintage and have strengths in different areas. As such, I don’t just use one watchmaker but select based on the specific watch and what it does or doesn’t need.
I also have STS a few hours away and their stash of vintage parts, coupled with excellent servicing and customer service can be an amazing resource.
4. Developing a good eye is key. Really you can only do this by putting your money where your mouth is and going out and buying vintage watches and learning first hand what is/isn’t worth restoring. If you’re not careful you can buy what you think is a decent project only to get bogged down in a frustrating time/money pit. Equally, there can be real satisfaction in buying a watch that others overlooked due to the state of it, but you know, it’s a genuine diamond in a goats ass (I watched Fast n Loud yesterday).

#2 is number 1 in my book. I would buy assortments at the NAWCC marts. Stuff others did not want and went cheap. When one is young Or at leas in their 30s there is a feeling that the missing cases will come along. Or can be replicated.

For most people the external appearance is all that matters. Most people could care less what is inside.