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New speedy 3861 - upgrade or not?

Pazzo
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Major74 Major74
Hello, new to the forums. ....
....................

.................... , I like the 1861 bracelet design, feel and comfort but the endlinks protrusion is disgusting on my 6.5inch wrist. it's just about "okay". I may consider the 3861 bracelet on my 1861 watch ...............

Would love to hear your views on the matter.

..


Hi and welcome to OF.
Maybe you ought to try out a bracelet (links below) for your 1861 either from @Forstnerbands or @Uncle Seiko since they both have ones that are readily available. Many find them excellent for their value.

https://www.forstnerbands.co.uk/collections/all
https://www.uncleseiko.com/collections/speedmaster-1
Edited:
 
sgrenald
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Like some others have said, I'd wait until a 3861 model that "grabbed" me was released. Or if you can get your hands on a Snoopy...
 
worldwidewes
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gbesq gbesq
I like the 3861, but given my preference for vintage, I have no intention of selling my 861 models to finance an upgrade. I was never a fan of the 1861, especially with the modern bracelet — too heavy, too clunky, too blingy.

Agreed. I've tried on the 1861 in boutiques a few times and the bracelet always made it look too big for my wrist. I bought a 145.022 with a strap in 2019 and it's the perfect size for my wrist. The bracelet makes the watch so much bulkier.
 
Pazzo
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worldwidewes sanjit
Agreed. .........

The bracelet makes the watch so much bulkier.

Agreed also but there are other bracelets available that won't make the watch look bulky.
 
fendushi
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I'm actually one of the few people here that likes the bulkier bracelet. I like the new one too because of that better looking clasp.

I was considering between a 1863 and a 3861 too but a watchmaker who have repaired co axial movements have deterred me from getting one. He said that he has seen the damage that the co axial escapements can cause. He also made a point that if co axial escapements are so good, why don't other brands like Patek, Rolex or AP use them.

I think the bad ones may have been the earlier coaxial movement as I have heard of issues with those early movements. I honestly think Omega would have solved those issues by now but after hearing that bad story from the watchmaker, I went home with a 1863.

I will eventually get a 3861 but I will never give up my 1863 for various reasons. The fact that its pre co axial and discontinued. And also for the fact that the movement practically remained unchanged for so long.
 
cknight24
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fendushi fendushi
He also made a point that if co axial escapements are so good, why don't other brands like Patek, Rolex or AP use them.

I believe this is because George Daniels sold the patent to Omega, so only Omega can use them.
 
scapa
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rfcs rfcs
I own and will keep the FOIS with the 1861. I use it mostly on Tuesdays or weekends with a Napa leather NATO strap. This piece should hold value and is a legacy to pass on.

Same boat, and same plan. I still prefer my FOIS to either of the new 3861-based pieces I tried on yesterday overall, movement aside, and plan to enter the 3861 world with the Snoopy I have on order. If it doesn't arrive, I might look at the new Sapphire Speedy, but at nearly 10k CAD before taxes -- more than twice what I paid for my AD-purchased new FOIS -- it sure has a lot of competition from other marques and models. Fine watch with some excellent respectful upgrades, and I appreciate the addition of greater accuracy, resistance to magnetism and (less so) hacking, but I'm not sure it's anything like the value that the outgoing models were, which is good for Omega but maybe less good for aspiring watch enthusiasts who want to buy new.

To those who have one, enjoy -- both are fine watches. To those with 1861-based Speedies, you're still wearing one of the great watches. IMO.
 
fendushi
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cknight24 cknight24
I actually had this thought after I posted that. Maybe they don't use it because it's seen as Omega's thing and don't want it to seem like they're copying them?

Maybe it's also because they are more traditional brands and like to stay true to traditional horology.

Rolex just recently started applying AR coating to their crystals instead of just the cyclops. It will probably be a while before any of these brands adopt co axial escapements in any of their movements.

Time will tell regarding the reliability of co axial escapements, but the fact that Omega have adopted this in all their movements and offering 5 years warranty with Metas certification is quite reassuring. The only worry I have is the cost of service after the warranty expired vs a non co axial movement if more parts will need to be replaced.
Edited:
 
Pazzo
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Major74 Major74
...

................................... My question is how many of you are smitten enough to sell your 1861's to purchase the 3861.

.....

Not enough.

For a calibre 321? Now, that's another story.
 
Major74
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fc3861 fc3861
Hello and welcome! I'm new to the forum as well but have been an Omega fan boy forever.

I recently bought the new 3861 and I'm totally in love with it. I never owned the 1861 but years ago a friend let me borrow a really old Speedy for a while (I'm not sure which reference it was) and the 3861 reminds me very much of the previous version before the 1861.

I just wanted to make a couple of comments on topics that came up so far.

First, I would not feel like you got ripped off because you paid full retail at an Omega Boutique. I've had experience buying from the discount dan gray market websites of other products, not just watches and I'm here to say that there are benefits to purchasing from the Omega Boutique directly. I recently had a mishap with my brand new 3861 that literally made me sick to my stomach (see my thread on the topic) and I was very thankful that I had purchased it from a boutique because the support they gave me and the discounts on the parts to get it back to normal was well worth more than any savings I may have received from buying gray market. So, I guess it's only a ripoff if you're really careful and have the good luck to never have any problems with your watches.

Second, it sounds like you purchased your 1861 to commemorate a significant milestone in your life which you will never forget. I would treasure and cherish that watch and hand it down to your next generation some day. I wouldn't ever sell that watch just to upgrade to the latest. If you really love the Speedmaster, I would just save up and just buy the 3861 because the look and feel of it is great as well as the accuracy of the new movement is phenomenal. There are many reasons to get the new version however, I still would not sell your 1861 to fund it.

Enjoy your Speedy in good health and best regards!

FC

Thanks man. That was very kindly written. I don't feel as bad for paying MSRP now. I'll just try to be more on the ball next time and try to get a better price. That's terrible to hear of your issues with your brand new 3861 but I am glad you have sorted. Wear it in good health also, friend. I'm definitely keeping my 1861. It's definitely special to me.

I was just curious to what people thought of the updates of the 3861. I think the whole update to the moonwatch was verging on revolutionary, yet evolutionary enough to keep it a moonwatch, which is a breath of fresh air in a world where most brands are just releasing the same thing with different colour text/different width text.

Pazzo Pazzo
Hi and welcome to OF.
Maybe you ought to try out a bracelet (links below) for your 1861 either from @Forstnerbands or @Uncle Seiko since they both have ones that are readily available. Many find them excellent for their value.

https://www.forstnerbands.co.uk/collections/all
https://www.uncleseiko.com/collections/speedmaster-1
This is very userful. Thank you. I will check them out. Those flat link look amazing.
 
sgrenald
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Pazzo Pazzo
Not enough.

For a calibre 321? Now, that's another story.

I think we need a 321 hesalite sandwich
 
Pun
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cknight24 cknight24
I actually had this thought after I posted that. Maybe they don't use it because it's seen as Omega's thing and don't want it to seem like they're copying them?
By that logic Annual Calendar complication should have stayed with Patek Philippe only. Nearly all brands copied it, the moment it was available to them!
 
Major74
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Guys, I have tried to search about the old vs new dials and nothing mentions about the texture. Has the texture changed?
At about 4:34 mins in the video, he shows both dials. This video shows significantly different textures on the dial. Anyone with both speedies and good eyes/loupe?
Anyone able to chime in on this?
 
gnuyork
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It's my understanding that the texture has changed, on both the dial and the hands. I have not compared directly so take my word with a grain of salt. Apparently the new dial is deeper black as well.
 
scapa
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gnuyork gnuyork
It's my understanding that the texture has changed, on both the dial and the hands. I have not compared directly so take my word with a grain of salt. Apparently the new dial is deeper black as well.

The new dials looked less grainy and more thickly and uniformly black to my eyes, although I don’t own my 1861 Speedy Pro anymore. The FOIS seems to have a deeper, almost varnished-wood texture, and the new watches seem closer to that than the outgoing models — but I didn’t get to spend much time with the new variants, and wasn’t using a loupe. I’m sure there are owners of both here who can chime in,
 
B
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I'm not sure people have bought speedy for accuracy. More likely they bought it because they like the watch and to tap in to the history. They bought knowing all mainline speedys look pretty much unchanged. So I struggle to see why anyone would feel an urgent need to spend more to get what is really the same thing, without the big box of extras.
 
gbesq
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cknight24 cknight24
I actually had this thought after I posted that. Maybe they don't use it because it's seen as Omega's thing and don't want it to seem like they're copying them?
Perhaps another reason is that it would cost any manufacturer serious $$$$ to retool their plants to manufacture an entirely new movement as different as the co-axial, plus producing a parts inventory, plus the cost of training for maintenance and repair, service bulletins, advertising, etc., etc.
 
gnuyork
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B bthUK
I'm not sure people have bought speedy for accuracy. More likely they bought it because they like the watch and to tap in to the history. They bought knowing all mainline speedys look pretty much unchanged. So I struggle to see why anyone would feel an urgent need to spend more to get what is really the same thing, without the big box of extras.

The 3861 is my first Speedmaster, so maybe not the same, but for me, I was sold on the bracelet just in photos alone, everything else was icing on the cake. I'm glad they did away with the extras. What am I going to do with a paper weight medallion? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I don't need any of the other extras either. I suppose I wouldn't mind having the NATO, but the bracelet is so good in my opinion it will never leave the watch. I'd use that NATO on other watches though.
 
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