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New guy from Toronto looking for vintage watch

dmcleod
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Thanks for the response! An overwhelming no! Appreciate the guidance. I think it is a very handsome watch, but clearly overpriced and a mixture of parts from the sound of it aside from the repainted dial.

Can someone suggest reading on bumper movements? I am interested in learning.

Looked at Hamilton's offering and nothing there was quite right.
 
amcclell
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Just google bumper or hammer watch movement and you will come up with lots of hits on the web for bedtime reading. The issues are two-fold: lower efficiency of the auto wind mechanism, and difficulty obtaining parts, especially for uncommon calibres. Collectors buy them, as they represent a previous generation of technology, but if you need parts, you may need to source a complete movement for your watchmaker to rob the parts from. I have been down this road myself and you need to be invested in the particular watch. If you like the style posted, there are lots of 34mm Tudor and Rolex watches from the 1950's and 1960's that will have movements that are easier to have serviced. A manual wind has fewer parts and may present fewer problems. If you want auto wind, a newer one will be more reliable.
Edited:
 
Snooz
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If i had to recommend a vintage piece under $2k it would be this one - photos don't do them justice!

16104715466043286648828430132092.jpg
 
WhatYourWatchSay
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I had one of those Caravelles and tried finding a bezel. Finally got fed up and listed it on ebay figuring it would sell for a decent price. Highest bid was $138 CAD. Really pissed off at myself for selling it.
 
Snooz
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WhatYourWatchSay WhatYourWatchSay
I had one of those Caravelles and tried finding a bezel. Finally got fed up and listed it on ebay figuring it would sell for a decent price. Highest bid was $138 CAD. Really pissed off at myself for selling it.

Gee that's too bad 🙁 - yes I guess 'cosmetic' parts for these are pretty scarce....a couple sold on hodinkee for $2500 + a while back, but in general you can find them for a lot less. They really are stunning in the flesh so to speak! 🥰
 
amcclell
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Snooz Snooz
If i had to recommend a vintage piece under $2k it would be this one - photos don't do them justice!

16104715466043286648828430132092.jpg
Specccc-taacular!
 
SkunkPrince
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I tihnk if you were going to stay with Omega, then the next place to look is the manual-wind 30mm watches, like my avatar. Everyone loves them, my watchmaker actually gave me a discount on servicing mine because it went together so easily. As the name suggests, you have to wind them every day, but you do that in the morning when you put it (back) on.
 
watchyouwant
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Again: have a look at Jomashop for new, with factory warranty " vintage " Longines . The best bang for your buck is the mechanical chronograph Longines Avigation Big Eye. An outright beauty , good size, does everything you want from the vintage look and with factory warranty you are safe. Kind regards. Achim
 
Dan S
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SkunkPrince SkunkPrince
I tihnk if you were going to stay with Omega, then the next place to look is the manual-wind 30mm watches, like my avatar. Everyone loves them, my watchmaker actually gave me a discount on servicing mine because it went together so easily. As the name suggests, you have to wind them every day, but you do that in the morning when you put it (back) on.

I think this would be a great choice, as long as the OP is willing to deal with an older watch that could occasionally need some maintenance. These can be robust watches, especially one with a screw-on case-back and shock protection. The OP might take a look at some reference 2639 pieces just as one example. They have a shock protected movement, screw on case back, and often have dials with some arabic numerals. They are 36mm and have an appealing style IMO. They have a sub-dial, obviously, and the OP hasn't indicated his preference in that regard.

Of course, there are dozens of references with 30mm movements.

https://tinyurl.com/y2jlr5tt
Edited:
 
dmcleod
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watchyouwant watchyouwant
That Tudor is terrible. Apart from case, nothing checks out. Avoid ! Keep asking. Kind regards. Achim
Could you provide any clues as to what else is off about this example? I am trying to learn and would like to know.

I am aware the dial is repainted - is this always bad? I suppose it can conceal prior damage or patina, but there are certainly cases where the patina distracts rather than enhances.

Dan S mentioned that the hands are incorrect as well. Where would I be able to find something to compare to? Just google Tudor 951?

Curious if there is anything else? I am unable to look at a picture of a movement and glean anything at all from it.
 
dmcleod
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amcclell amcclell
Just google bumper or hammer watch movement and you will come up with lots of hits on the web for bedtime reading. The issues are two-fold: lower efficiency of the auto wind mechanism, and difficulty obtaining parts, especially for uncommon calibres. Collectors buy them, as they represent a previous generation of technology, but if you need parts, you may need to source a complete movement for your watchmaker to rob the parts from. I have been down this road myself and you need to be invested in the particular watch. If you like the style posted, there are lots of 34mm Tudor and Rolex watches from the 1950's and 1960's that will have movements that are easier to have serviced. A manual wind has fewer parts and may present fewer problems. If you want auto wind, a newer one will be more reliable.
This makes sense. I suppose I almost want to establish a relationship with a watchmaker to see if it is something that they can maintain before I purchase. I would prefer an automatic rather than manual movement.
 
Dan S
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dmcleod dmcleod
Could you provide any clues as to what else is off about this example? I am trying to learn and would like to know.

I am aware the dial is repainted - is this always bad? I suppose it can conceal prior damage or patina, but there are certainly cases where the patina distracts rather than enhances.

Dan S mentioned that the hands are incorrect as well. Where would I be able to find something to compare to? Just google Tudor 951?

Curious if there is anything else? I am unable to look at a picture of a movement and glean anything at all from it.

This takes time and experience, and there is no substitute for firsthand effort on your part. We can't just transfer knowledge to you. Read threads, look at photos, visit auction sites, read books, join a local collectors group and handle watches, etc. Moreover, you can't expect people who have spent years (or decades) looking at tens of thousands of watches to explain that knowledge in a few words. If you continue to pursue your interest in vintage watches, a year from now you will have started to learn, and you will look back on this post and understand how much there is to learn.
 
amcclell
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Firstly, the Chrono24 add states 1962 and the 951 movement is from the 1940's-50's. Secondly, the dial looks like it came from the factory yesterday, on a watch that is 70+ years old. Thirdly, the dial should say automatic and it does not.

The hands most common for these watches were sword style with lume, or dauphine with or without lume. There are often radium burn marks on the dial, but not always. If you do a google search on Tudor 951, you will find plenty of hits in the images section, as well as old sales adds in the websites section that you can comb through to see what legit, aged examples look like.
 
amcclell
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Agreed - it is already in Canada, eliminating duty and taxes at the border.
 
dmcleod
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janice&fred janice&fred
I'm surprised the OP hasn't spotted this gem right here on our site and located in Toronto to boot!
FS - Omega Seamaster Ref # 2856 15 SC Crosshair dial SERVICED ***$600*** | Omega Forums

I have no relation to the seller aside from making him a lower offer so unless youse guys wise up and snap this thing up it might end up in my greedy paws 😁
It is a very nice watch, however I would like to get one with numerals on the face. I really like the character that they add.
 
dmcleod
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amcclell amcclell
Firstly, the Chrono24 add states 1962 and the 951 movement is from the 1940's-50's. Secondly, the dial looks like it came from the factory yesterday, on a watch that is 70+ years old. Thirdly, the dial should say automatic and it does not.

The hands most common for these watches were sword style with lume, or dauphine with or without lume. There are often radium burn marks on the dial, but not always. If you do a google search on Tudor 951, you will find plenty of hits in the images section, as well as old sales adds in the websites section that you can comb through to see what legit, aged examples look like.
Regarding the repainted face - is it always bad to get one that has been redone? I've seen some where the face and numbers are barely legible and I wonder what the appeal is in that. Obviously I don't know what it looked like before, but it appears to be repainted nicely, albeit missing the word automatic. I guess there is a blurry line between patina and damage and I wonder if repainting can prolong the life of a watch.

Here's a JCL that has had the face redone and it looks good to me: https://watchestobuy.com/shop/le-coultre-power-reserve-14k-solid-gold/

Another Tudor with the original face, of course a very different model, but this looks like an example of good patina to me: https://watchestobuy.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/TudorBlackHoneyb.jpg
 
Dan S
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dmcleod dmcleod
Regarding the repainted face - is it always bad to get one that has been redone? I've seen some where the face and numbers are barely legible and I wonder what the appeal is in that. Obviously I don't know what it looked like before, but it appears to be repainted nicely, albeit missing the word automatic. I guess there is a blurry line between patina and damage and I wonder if repainting can prolong the life of a watch.

Here's a JCL that has had the face redone and it looks good to me: https://watchestobuy.com/shop/le-coultre-power-reserve-14k-solid-gold/

Another Tudor with the original face, of course a very different model, but this looks like an example of good patina to me: https://watchestobuy.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/TudorBlackHoneyb.jpg

I suppose you mean JLC. A watch with a repainted dial like this is of virtually no interest to vintage watch collectors, and this forum is full of collectors, so that's the opinion you will mostly get here. From a more practical perspective, the market value of a watch with a repainted dial is cut approximately in half compared to one with a nice original dial, and they are very hard to sell if you ever tire of the watch or want to upgrade. Dealers will still dangle them out there as shiny objects and try to hook fish with them.

Damaged dials (or as seller's say, "dials with patina") can still be appealing obviously. It is a matter of personal taste. The collectible value of watches with damaged dials is on a sliding scale based on the extent of the damage and the dial's aesthetic appeal. In the case of extremely rare pieces, a patinated dial may be your only option. In a very few cases, dials that show aging in special and beautiful ways are actually worth more than a pristine dial. But this is really quite uncommon, despite the stories that sellers tell and the fancy names they give to dials.

If you like the way a watch looks and don't care about value or collectibility, then just buy whatever you want. There's really no point in asking questions on the forum.

I suggest you follow threads for a while and do market research using actual sale prices drawn from Ebay, auctions, and forum listings. Trolling C24 and dealer sites is likely to give you a confused and distorted perspective.
 
amcclell
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It is really a matter of personal preference, so this is totally up to you. This forum is stacked with watch nerds (self included) who obsess about authenticity and originality. Back in the day, repainting was extremely common, as was polishing when watches were sent in for service. Most owners used them to tell the time and did not give a rat's ass about patina, or originality. If the watch was damaged by smoke, or moisture, the shop sent the dial out for refinishing and the owner was happy to receive a watch that looked like new again.

If you are buying this watch to keep for the long haul, buy whatever suits your fancy. A redial is fine, if it looks nice to you, but I suggest you get one with a common movement that is easy to service with parts available. If you are looking to sell it sometime down the road, a redial will be very hard to sell to the watch collecting community, a bad redial - virtually impossible.

I have bought 4 of Derek's watches (watches to buy) over the past decade and I have had no issues with any of them. His watches are all sold as serviced and I think he does a decent job. You pay full dealer price - he doesn't negotiate but this is how he makes his living.

Of the 2 that you have shown, the Tudor is quite nice and the black waffle dial is appealing to me. It looks all original. The movement is a better, more modern choice than the bumper you were looking at on Chrono24. I only have 2 cautions. The 33mm size is a bit small for some people, so you may want to try one on your wrist. My wrist is 6 & 3/4 inches and 33-35mm is my favorite size but most people gravitate to larger watches in the 39-43 mm range. I'll post a few photos below to give you a sense bit without trying some watches on yourself, it will be hard for you to be certain.

The second caution is the dial which may look better in real life, the same, or a bit worse. White, champagne, and sunburst dials tend to show every blemish and often look better in person, to the naked eye. Black dials are a bit more fickle and the waffle dial, even more so. I really like patina but again - not everyone does. Too bad you missed out on the black, textured Tissot that just sold on the private sales section as it was a bargain.
33mm
20210101_134217.jpg

33mm
20201130_230846.jpg


42mm
16105834948169005705920042632644.jpg
 
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