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Need advice on this 3572.50 hesalite sandwich

cjoedaniel
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Hi folks,
I’ve been given the opportunity to purchase this watch circa 1996-2002. Bracelet looks great and nothing major on the case. Sorry no pics. I was too excited and it didn’t cross my mind. However we were able to put it on the timegrapher and he said the amplitude is pretty decent and might need a service in 2 years. Watch comes with no box and papers but does include a 2 year warranty. I am debating whether to get this or a new 1861... or wait longer for a 3861. Can someone comment on the readouts below. Seems like the average +6spd is pretty good for a 20yr old watch.
Thanks.
38064BF1-7E9C-4B19-A93D-FDB7EE2C1355.jpeg
 
Archer
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Not sure who did this check, but they have used a program for a Rolex 3135, which has a lift angle of 52 degrees. The 1861 movement has a lift angle of 50 degrees, which means the balance amplitudes shown, which are already a bit low as they appear, are actually lower than what is shown.

The chances that this movement requires a service are high, so I would account for that in the price you are willing to pay.
 
cjoedaniel
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Archer Archer
Not sure who did this check, but they have used a program for a Rolex 3135, which has a lift angle of 52 degrees. The 1861 movement has a lift angle of 50 degrees, which means the balance amplitudes shown, which are already a bit low as they appear, are actually lower than what is shown.

The chances that this movement requires a service are high, so I would account for that in the price you are willing to pay.

Thanks @Archer that is a great catch. The guy who ran it isn’t necessarily a watchmaker but I’m assuming has some experience at the store which used to be an Omega AD. They are asking $5250. I am drawn to it because of the display caseback with a hesalite front.
Do you think a minimum service would be lubrication or a complete replacement of the mainspring? Probably an impossible question to answer without seeing the watch. Was wondering if that was something I could negotiate before the sale.

Thanks
 
Archer
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A proper service will include replacement of the mainspring and any worn parts.
 
Rado63
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You say you were there when they put it on the timegrapher. So this is the printout for the watch you want to buy but the machine setting is for the wrong movement. Condition and price always determine the value of the watch. You say that watch has a 2 year warranty. Curious to know when the watch was last serviced and by whom? What does this warranty cover. There are so many watches for sale with box and papers, and may have been serviced by Omega, or the watch may be due for service and that should all be part of the negotiation.
 
cjoedaniel
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Rado63 Rado63
You say you were there when they put it on the timegrapher. So this is the printout for the watch you want to buy but the machine setting is for the wrong movement. Condition and price always determine the value of the watch. You say that watch has a 2 year warranty. Curious to know when the watch was last serviced and by whom? What does this warranty cover. There are so many watches for sale with box and papers, and may have been serviced by Omega, or the watch may be due for service and that should all be part of the negotiation.
Yes I was there and he took the watch and went back to put it on the timegrapher so technically I wasn’t physically there seeing it. Now if this mistake was intentional or if he used as different watch..well that’s a whole other issue. However my interactions with them so far have been professional and pleasant. They claim they do not know the service history. And I have not asked about specifics on the 2 year warranty.

Only thing I would fault them for is they are pretty firm on their pricing. My original purpose was trying to get a discount on a brand new 1861 but no luck so far.
 
Dor_42
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cjoedaniel cjoedaniel
Only thing I would fault them for is they are pretty firm on their pricing. My original purpose was trying to get a discount on a brand new 1861 but no luck so far.
If this is the watch you actually want I'd go somewhere else.
No reason to pay MSRP on a 1861 at an AD, even now with the new model not enough time had past (IMO) to make them go up in value by this much and not giving any discount, I may be wrong here but from my personal experience and from a few threads seen here on the forum it is pretty easy to get a discount for the 1861, I got my 1863 with a 27% discount about a year ago - I don't see why it cant be done with the 1861 today.
 
padders
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I just realised that this is a Hesa Sandwich being discussed not the Sapphire Sandwich model. This does add value since the Hesa sandwich has been out of production for nearly 20 years so is rather more special and much less common. That said the price, at circa $6k inc the necessary service seems steep, especially since it is a loose watch. I would have thought $5k serviced would be nearer the mark. If you are just looking for a recent model, I’d look elsewhere. Maybe a recent Sapphire Sandwich or std Moonwatch might be a better bet. $5k would buy a mint recent suitcase model full set with warranty remaining. If you really want a display back there are cheap aftermarket options.
Edited:
 
Evitzee
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On a watch that old count on it needing an overhaul on your dime unless they can prove it recently had one. Factoring in an overhaul would give a price I wouldn't pay, but that is subjective. Only you can decide if the price is right.
 
KeithS
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cjoedaniel cjoedaniel
They are asking $5250

That is way too much for an unserviced 3572.50. For reference, I sold mine a few months ago for $4700. Mine was in immaculate condition, serviced by Omega in 2019, had box/papers, and came with its extract of the archive.
 
sgrenald
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There's a 3572.50 on Chrono24 for $4400 right now. I think it's from NYC Watch Vault.
 
cjoedaniel
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KeithS KeithS
That is way too much for an unserviced 3572.50. For reference, I sold mine a few months ago for $4700. Mine was in immaculate condition, serviced by Omega in 2019, had box/papers, and came with its extract of the archive.
Oh man I would have bought it!
 
cjoedaniel
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Dor_42 Dor_42
If this is the watch you actually want I'd go somewhere else.
No reason to pay MSRP on a 1861 at an AD, even now with the new model not enough time had past (IMO) to make them go up in value by this much and not giving any discount, I may be wrong here but from my personal experience and from a few threads seen here on the forum it is pretty easy to get a discount for the 1861, I got my 1863 with a 27% discount about a year ago - I don't see why it cant be done with the 1861 today.
I wish this was true but I don't think it's true in all markets especially in a small city like mine. Called the only other AD and they don't have any in stock but have some folks on a list for shipments. I'm pretty sure they will be paying retail. I'm sure I will be able to get a decent discount elsewhere but I'm not planning any international travel outside of the US until later this year and by then the supply may be even more limited... who knows.
 
cjoedaniel
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Evitzee Evitzee
On a watch that old count on it needing an overhaul on your dime unless they can prove it recently had one. Factoring in an overhaul would give a price I wouldn't pay, but that is subjective. Only you can decide if the price is right.
You are right. I think if they were to do a mainspring and worn parts replacement (ie. $750 Omega pricing) it would be at the $6k mark. At that point I would probably opt for a 3861.
 
cjoedaniel
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sgrenald sgrenald
There's a 3572.50 on Chrono24 for $4400 right now. I think it's from NYC Watch Vault.
Yea I saw that one...no service history but says keeps good time at +32spd! Ugh...
 
Taddyangle
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I think that price is high. Is it tritium or luminova?

Have you looked at the new Speedmaster? It's very nice. I was thinking about buying one.
 
texasmade
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cjoedaniel cjoedaniel
Yea I saw that one...no service history but says keeps good time at +32spd! Ugh...
haha

How can you say no to +32 spd? That's practically atomic clock accurate.
 
cjoedaniel
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Taddyangle Taddyangle
I think that price is high. Is it tritium or luminova?

Have you looked at the new Speedmaster? It's very nice. I was thinking about buying one.
It looked like luminova to me. To be honest when I had a new 1861 next to it I couldn’t really tell a difference between the dials.
 
Taddyangle
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Here is my 3572.50. it's tritium. Markers are more of a creamy color vs the luminova, which are more of a greenish white color.

IMG_20190217_110543.jpg
 
cjoedaniel
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Great looking watch! That endlink looks like its coming off?
 
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