Mysterious power reserve on a 2846 Seamaster

Posts
591
Likes
2,930
Hi everyone, another snowy icy day in Germany and I hope everyone is safe.

I would very much like to ask you all if anybody has had a similiar experience to mine in regards of power reserve on a vintage and recently serviced piece.

I am fairly new to the vintage game and have only around 4 vintage Omega pieces, including a 40s Rosegold ref. 2438 with a cal. 354, a Seamaster ref. 2767 also powered by a cal. 354, a C-Shape-Connie ref. 168.017 powered by cal. 564 and the watch in question, a Seamaster ref. 2846 powered by cal. 501.



So I was all happy to finally get my Seamaster ref. 2846 in steel after it was serviced by a watchmaker a close friend in the watch world trusts. It was part of the deal and I didn't have to pay for the service. The gentleman who sold me the watch paid for it.

So, just right after getting the watch, I realised the power reserve was way too short. The watch would stop after just 6 to 7 hours. I called my friend and took the watch back to our WM, who sincerely apologised and promised to have another look.

A week later the WM writes me and says I can come back and take the watch. I go there, and he tells me he inspected the piece again and there was just nothing wrong with it. He said he even wore the watch for a whole day and was sure the watch was fully wound and after 35 hours, it was still running.

I took the watch back, but only to see that the power reserve was now around 12 to 14 hours.

My other watches have not yet been serviced and they don't come nearly as close to the precision of the nearly serviced 2846 (+3 secs a day). They all however last for more than 35 hours.

I tried absolutely everything and turned the crown 40+ times and wore the watch an entire day but a power reserve of 14 hours is just too little. It pains me almost, as I really like this watch.

I took also a foto of the movement when I visited the WM last time.

My friend who is also a member went to really a great trouble to make sure I had the best experience with the watch and provided replacement parts for the 501 movement prior to it's service. I just don't understand what can be wrong with it as well. It looks really pristine.



Would anybody have any idea about what the problem could be?

Best,

Rudi
Edited:
 
Posts
14,609
Likes
42,322
Did you manually wind it before you put it on? If so, how much did you wind it? You said it stopped 6 or 7 hours later. After putting the watch on, did you wear it continually until it stopped? If you didn’t wear it continually until it stopped, how long did you wear it? Did it stop 6 or 7 hours after you took it off? Not possible for me to comment re: winding reserve until I know answers to the above.
 
Posts
591
Likes
2,930
Had accidentally clicked to post before I was done writing... Now it is done and with pictures. Sorry, @Canuck
 
Posts
28,048
Likes
71,606
Was the pinion for the rotor replaced? The rotor has signs of rather severe wear from scraping on the inside of the case back. If that wasn't addressed, it could be part of the issue.

But I would suggest a test that takes your wearing it out of the equation. Wind it fully - as many turns as you think is needed to make sure of that - set the time, lay it down dial up, and see how long it runs.
 
Posts
591
Likes
2,930
Was the pinion for the rotor replaced? The rotor has signs of rather severe wear from scraping on the inside of the case back. If that wasn't addressed, it could be part of the issue.

But I would suggest a test that takes your wearing it out of the equation. Wind it fully - as many turns as you think is needed to make sure of that - set the time, lay it down dial up, and see how long it runs.

Hi Archer. Thanks for taking the time. I don't know about the rotor, will check that out with my friend and will post the info.

Regarding the test, yes, I did it yesterday just before midnight. I turned the crown around 60 times, three minutes long, and left the watch in the box. Around noon (12:36:15 to be more precise), the watch stopped.

I actually recorded my winding... Should I post it?

However, I wind all the other watches the exact same way and never had any problems... And like said, they have not yet been serviced!
 
Posts
28,048
Likes
71,606
Then something is certainly wrong...
 
Posts
14,609
Likes
42,322
Mainspring bridle problem most likely. The bridle is calibrated to begin slipping at a controlled rate, the moment the mainspring reaches a fully wound state. But some bridles can hold reserve power only up to a point. When that point is reached, often the bridle will immediately slip, a LOT, releasing a lot of stored power reserve. On occasion, a bridle may maintain its grip until the spring becomes fully wound, but when the bridle commenced slipping, it again will immediately slip a LOT, losing a lot of the reserve power. Sounds to me like the problem.
 
Posts
591
Likes
2,930
Mainspring bridle problem most likely.

Hi Canuck and thank you as well for taking the time. Both you guys are awesome.

Yeah, that makes sense, because the watch never stops working if I am wearing it, constantly giving it power through the rotor. It always stops once I am no longer wearing it, around 12 to 14 hours afterwards.

What puzzles me too is the fact that the WM mentioned it didn't stop when he was wearing it and he mentioned it ran for 40 hours.. He has been servicing watches for my friend for many years and he never had such a problem.
 
Posts
21,739
Likes
49,340
What puzzles me too is the fact that the WM mentioned it didn't stop when he was wearing it and he mentioned it ran for 40 hours.

Well, he was wearing it so the rotor was moving. If you took it off when going to bed and then put it right back on in the morning, it would probably never stop if you were active enough.
 
Posts
14,609
Likes
42,322
Hi Canuck and thank you as well for taking the time. Both you guys are awesome.

Yeah, that makes sense, because the watch never stops working if I am wearing it, constantly giving it power through the rotor. It always stops once I am no longer wearing it, around 12 to 14 hours afterwards.

What puzzles me too is the fact that the WM mentioned it didn't stop when he was wearing it and he mentioned it ran for 40 hours.. He has been servicing watches for my friend for many years and he never had such a problem.

If the bridle IS slipping, that puts the watchmaker’s assertion that it was “fully wound” into a cocked hat. When a bridle is not behaving as it should, it is not possible to fully wind the watch either manually, or by wearing it!
 
Posts
591
Likes
2,930
Well, he was wearing it so the rotor was moving. If you took it off when going to bed and then put it right back on in the morning, it would probably never stop if you were active enough.

Sure, exactly. If I am constantly wearing it, it just never stops and it is very accurate.

What he mentioned it happened: he wore it a whole day (which I also did) but layed down the watch and it ran for more than 30 hours.
 
Posts
591
Likes
2,930
If the bridle IS slipping, that puts the watchmaker’s assertion that it was “fully wound” into a cocked hat. When a bridle is not behaving as it should, it is not possible to fully wind the watch either manually, or by wearing it!

Well, hmm, ok I will try and say that to him... Not sure he understands english as we usually just speak german to each other.
 
Posts
1,512
Likes
2,589
If the watch is stopping every 12 hours, is it getting stopped around 12 o'clock? The hour hand might be getting ever so slightly caught on the Omega logo.
 
Posts
14,609
Likes
42,322
Then he might understand, what he tells you is very confusing. Same meaning, but more easily understood if he isn’t into English colloquialisms.

It is more important that he understands that how it works on YOU is the most important. Wind it 60 turns on the winding crown, and set it to time. Write the time down somewhere. Leave it off. Check it every 12 hours so that you don’t lose track of the hours it runs. If it is indeed fully wound when you start the test, it should run for over 36 hours. Closer to 40 would be better. When you find it stopped, write the time down. Note how long it ran. Take that information to the repair guy. Tell him what you expect when you get it back. 36 to 40 hours on a complete manual wind. Solve that, and you should have no power reserve problems when you get it back. Assuming, of course, that you are an ACTIVE wearer. Automatics can behave peculiarly on the wrist of inactive people, or invalids.

Remember, winding it 60 turns does not guarantee it is fully wound if the bridle is slipping prematurely. The power reserve on the test above should tell you if the bridle is the problem.
Edited:
 
Posts
591
Likes
2,930
So guys, dropped off the watch again at the WM. He apologised again and took my claims seriously, and looked extremely intrigued too. He mentioned he never experienced that before, and I mentioned your theory, @Canuck about the bridle. He said he will inspect the watch thoroughly and will write me when it's done.

@Caliber561 thanks, I did test the watch starting the countdown after full winding it around 6pm and it stopped around 7am next morning so I would think this is not the issue...

And thanks again @Archer and @Canuck for your attention and expertise. You guys are awesome.

Will update once I get hold of the watch again!
 
Posts
591
Likes
2,930
Short update: my WM took the watch and just disassembled it once again, and gave it a full service. During the service, he said he could not see any flaws in the movement and he just did what he had done before.

Result: now the watch runs with a power reserve of over 44 hours. 👍 It still keeps very accurate time of course, gaining 3 or 4 seconds a day.

Thank you all again for your time.

Best wishes from Germany,

Rudi