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smitty190373
·In a recent Hodinkee podcast Ben Clymer talked very matter of factly about weakness in the vintage watch market
I think Clymer means he can no longer sell average vintage pieces at sky high prices.
Musings on the strength of the vintage watch market, e.g., Speedmasters…
I think Clymer means he can no longer sell average vintage pieces at sky high prices.
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pdxleaf
·..Unless we get a new crop of mechanically inclined yungins who said f-you to their corporate jobs during lockdown and want to live the life of a journeyman, we are screwed.
When I asked my aging watchmaker about watchmaking as a career choice for younger people he said it wasn't simply a matter of not enough people choosing to become watchmakers. He said it is also a move by brands to limit access to the parts, with the intent to bring the work in-house. Without access to parts, this makes it harder to sustain yourself as an independent watchmaker, as well as limits the desire to train to become a watchmaker if it means you have to move to New Jersey so you can work in Secaucus.
I like my watches to work. I confess to still loving vintage but also recently soured on them, even though i am fortunate to still have access to a great watchmaker. But for how long? And even then, parts are getting hard to find. It's a comforting feeling buying a new Omega.
There's a nice used speedmaster for sale here in the private sales that surprises me that it hasn't sold. It has an interesting caseback and it's reasonably priced. It has made me wonder if it's just the forum that has softened or has the wider world also softened. There may be a lot of buyers who only want good deals. Because prices are up and there are more buyers, there are fewer deals, which means slower sales, with a perception of a slowing market.
It is worth repeating that the Rolex market is on fire. I don't know how to objectively evaluate its impact on the watch market but I think it has to have some impact, whether all good, all bad, or a combination of both.
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jjen
·I started collecting 4 years ago and I agree, it just seems unreasonable to spend the money to get a nice 321 or a vintage Rolex sports model. Also, the higher the prices the more the incentive for dealers to do “restoration” work on the dial and case without a disclosure. Has anyone seen a vintage sub for sale that didn’t have perfect lume, including the hands? I’ve been sticking to alarm watches and 1970’s Seamaster chronographs which at least come in honest condition or if there’s restoration work it’s more obvious
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felsby
··I don't see any option in settings or profileAs I've said before, this aspect is only going to get worse as prices for parts go up and watchmakers are more scarce. It will eventually make cheaper vintage watches very painful to get serviced, and many will not consider servicing worth doing unless the watch has significant value.
I guess we have to scoop up like this in the future.
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ckhaing
·as far as the watches are subjectively concerned -
some are seemingly clearly vintage (time frame, quality and rarity?)
some are just old, not rare or well made in the first place but in desirable conditions
some are junk anyway (to informed or uninformed eyes?)
is there potential objective criteria to sort them out?
lets say for example, is 3570.50 is by now vintage or not?
at what day / month / year ck2915 became vintage? why not before? why not after?
i think all boils down to the matter of being subjective / opinion and story telling (in addition to the theory of Inefficient Market )
some are seemingly clearly vintage (time frame, quality and rarity?)
some are just old, not rare or well made in the first place but in desirable conditions
some are junk anyway (to informed or uninformed eyes?)
is there potential objective criteria to sort them out?
lets say for example, is 3570.50 is by now vintage or not?
at what day / month / year ck2915 became vintage? why not before? why not after?
i think all boils down to the matter of being subjective / opinion and story telling (in addition to the theory of Inefficient Market )
Edited:
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watchyouwant
·as far as the watches are subjectively concerned -
some are seemingly clearly vintage (time frame, quality and rarity?)
some are just old, not rare or well made in the first place but in desirable conditions
some are junk anyway (to informed or uninformed eyes?)
is there potential objective criteria to sort them out?
lets say for example, is 3570.50 is by now vintage or not?
at what day / month / year ck2915 became vintage? why not before? why not after?
i think all boils down to the matter of being subjective / opinion and story telling (in addition to the theory of Inefficient Market )
??? How does that relate to the OP question?
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ckhaing
·or lets simply say -
Define "vintage watch market" before we can cohesively proceed in depth about OP's question.
which watch/watches is /are included or excluded under "vintage watch" name, and why?
Define "vintage watch market" before we can cohesively proceed in depth about OP's question.
which watch/watches is /are included or excluded under "vintage watch" name, and why?
Edited:
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stonestone
·It is worth repeating that the Rolex market is on fire. I don't know how to objectively evaluate its impact on the watch market but I think it has to have some impact, whether all good, all bad, or a combination of both.
To state what may be self-evident: The market’s obsession with Rolex and the resulting price action dims the appeal of everything that is considered comparable to many buyers, and more so in the vintage market. For better or worse many would-be collectors would like to think of themselves as savvy investors to justify their expenditures on objects which use an obsolete technology to tell them information that is plentifully available in their daily lives.
And as has been noted above, vintage watches which are not instantly recognisable by one’s peers (i.e. most vintage watches) don’t provide the bragging rights that accrue to Rolex and the other sought after brands.
Those who really just love vintage watches and don’t think (or need to think) about their value are a very small cohort.
Edited:
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Syrte
·At the risk
At the risk of sounding lame or patronizing, for which I apologize in advance, it seems only normal that people would think twice if they’re about to spend that type of money. The amount of the bid as it stood above corresponds approximately to the operating budget of 5 rural 300-kid schools in Kenya for two years, ie life-changing education and literacy for two years for 1500 kids.
Talk about an investment.
Part of it in my opinion, and has been mentioned, is a lack of inventory and people holding pieces currently. This eBay listing from last week to me really highlights this; very poor pictures, no details, but good price at auction. People want to bid and buy, but are really picky when it is a Buy It Now listing.
And yes, good chance the below is a pretty nice piece but a gamble with those pics. I asked the seller for more pictures during the auction and all sent were equally poor quality.
At the risk of sounding lame or patronizing, for which I apologize in advance, it seems only normal that people would think twice if they’re about to spend that type of money. The amount of the bid as it stood above corresponds approximately to the operating budget of 5 rural 300-kid schools in Kenya for two years, ie life-changing education and literacy for two years for 1500 kids.
Talk about an investment.
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Seaborg
·Sometimes I wonder what the Squirrel would have to say about all of this 🙄
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watchlovr
·“Vintage is dead”
Been hearing the same thing for 35 years.
It might eventually come true I suppose.
But not soon.
“Pre owned/grey market” is a different matter.
Been hearing the same thing for 35 years.
It might eventually come true I suppose.
But not soon.
“Pre owned/grey market” is a different matter.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI found a 2639 with a ruined dial for 100$ that was used as parts donor for another 2639. Plus, I got a spare case.
I guess we have to scoop up like this in the future.
It can be a good strategy. I recently serviced a vintage Omega watch, and another watch with the same movement was sent along to use for parts if they were needed, and they certainly were. Almost all the parts I needed for the good watch, were obtained from the donor, with the exception of one wheel. The wheel in the donor watch was also in bad condition - worse than the one I was trying to replace. That wheel is a discontinued part from Omega, and I happened to have one that I obtained on the open market for $75 in stock. In replacing that wheel, the price on the open market has now doubled, so now the two I have coming in are $150 each...
The problem with relying on donor movements is that often the part you need is also worn in the donor movement. I've had instances where I've bought 10 donor movements and none of them had a part that I needed that was good in them. If the part in question happens to be a weak spot, then you are even more unlikely to find a good part in a donor.
I have another vintage Omega here that was also sent with a donor movement, and almost nothing on that donor is of any use. Fortunately, tis movement Omega still has all the parts for, so not a problem to get it right.
Cheers, Al
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Mafkees
·I don't believe prices for vintage watches are declining at all. If anything, prices have skyrocketed. I am not referring to high end examples as previously discussed, instead, it seems to me your average watch is being listed by google-savvy sellers as if it were solid unobtanium in more instances every day.
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JwRosenthal
·I don't believe prices for vintage watches are declining at all. If anything, prices have skyrocketed. I am not referring to high end examples as previously discussed, instead, it seems to me your average watch is being listed by google-savvy sellers as if it were solid unobtanium in more instances every day.
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