Not sure if I'm in the correct forum with this question but I saw a Movado Datron HS 360 listed yesterday and the movement was marked Zenith. I know the Zenith was the correct movement for these watches but I've only seen them with Movado marked movements, not Zenith. Correct or a switched movement?

 

Interesting watch and a good question. Most of these also had the lower duty 17 jewel movement, so it is hard to say. The movement, or rotor could have been swapped out due to wear/ damage but then again, Zenith saw lots of change during the 1970s, and there are inconsistencies with caseback numbers on some watches. You have probably seen this article but just in case.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/just-because-the-movado-datron-hs360

 

My understanding is that there's a lot of fluidity between Movado and Zenith markings on watches from this era, so I think that's totally normal. Movado was the better known name in the U.S. and Zenith elsewhere. (There was also a prominent electronics and TV company in the U.S. called Zenith, so it may have also been to avoid copyright infringement.)

 

Thanks for your reply @amcclell. My first thought was also a rotor swap during service but wanted to reach out to more knowledgeable collectors of Movado/Zenith. I asked the owner and he says the movement has been serviced twice by two different watchmakers within a six month period, which also made me curious. And thanks for posting that article link. I did find it while researching this one but it's good to have here for others to see. Most of the Datrons I've seen are sporting the Movado 17 jewel movements and occasionally the Movado 31 jewel. This is the first Zenith 31 jewel model I've seen.

Thanks for your comment @spe777. The funny thing about being in Canada is Zenith the electronics manufacturer didn't have a huge presence up here so collectors often see Movado and Zentih watches in similar numbers. That was something that also made me wonder about this particular watch because since both brands were readily available up I wonder if this one reached Canada as it is, or if it was changed at some point.

On this Hodinkee listing for the same type of watch, the rotor is marked Mavado 17 jewels, but the caliber number and import code on the movement is 3019 PHC, which is the same numbers/letters on the movement I posted above. So maybe it was just a rotor change. Which makes me wonder is the movement actually 31 jewels, or was it originally a 17 jewel?

https://shop.hodinkee.com/products/1970s-movado-datron-hs360-sub-sea?variant=2073569984527

 

I was going to suggest a jewel count as that could tell you if the rotor was swapped. I am not sure if Zenith ran out of Movado branded rotors. I have seen one or 2 with plain rotors, which I assumed were replacements.

 

Now that's something I didn't know. Thanks for the info. Learn something new everyday

Yet another bit of Zenith history I didn't know. Everyday is a school day for me.

I'll keep looking and maybe turn up another Zenith rotor movement.

 

If the watch works and the price is right, you'll have an interesting watch with an El Primero movement. Could be worse.

Hard to see details in the photos but the movement doesn't look abused or rusty. But two services in 6 months can mean the first guy cleaned it but found something out of tolerance or a worn part that he couldn't find to replace. Or he simply didn't have the experience for this movement, which I heard can be more challenging.

The trials and tribulations of buying vintage. Good luck.

Btw, i just got one that is now in for service. Great heritage but my fingers are crossed as it is a dirty movement.

 

FYI, seems to be a fair amount of variety.

(Photo sent to me by a fellow forum member. We were pondering the difference in sub dial hands, painted or chrome, and the index marks at three and nine.)

 

True. I'm usually a glass half empty kind of guy so tend to over analyze things like this.

I found this curious. Did the first watchmaker bungle the job or was he not able to find parts or do the work, as you mention? Did the second guy correct anything the first guy did wrong? The current owner isn't forthcoming with info so I don't know what the situation was.

 

Here is the story about how Zenith Electronics tried to scuttle the El Primero and the man who saved it despite their best efforts to kill it.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/c...-who-saved-the-el-primero-and-possibly-zenith

I have a couple of them - a 1973 Surf w/ 3019 and a 1993 Rainbow w/ 400. They are lovely watches.

 

Who knew TV people hated watches so much.

 

I'm going to be meeting the seller about this watch and I'll post how it goes.

I found this one which is marked 31 jewels:

https://www.arlingtonwatchworks.com/product-page/movado-datron-hs-360

 

I'm having trouble nailing down a market value on these, they seem to be all over the place. Seller wants the equivalent of $2850 USD. That seems a little high.

 

Has the original signed bracelet, original pushers and crown, nice hands, and decent case. Hard to see dial details but assume not damaged. Serviced so assume it runs. It seems a resonable price.

If it had a bakelite bezel or blue dial, it would be more expensive.

Not that I have my finger on the pulse of the market but this seem fair. Maybe not a wholesale price to a dealer. (Of course i am biased because i already bought one.)

 

Thanks much for your thoughts on this @pdxleaf. I don't know enough about Movado/Zenith in general and this watch in particular to be able to go from experience.

 

I ended up seeing this watch. Guy was nice but was really bigging up this watch but not actually telling me anything about it, so I passed. Nice watch but like the saying goes; buy the seller.