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Massena LAB Release - a Uni-Compax reissue within days?

SpeedTar
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I am getting really tired of hommage reissue etc.

To me it appears like a lack of creativity and when the price is so high 3500$ (seriously???!!!) it's just like showing the purpose of this watch : a maximum profit by a quick assembling of a watch => almost no effort neither in the design nor in the movement or case => using a Selitta is using an existing raw case, raw dial etc.
 
jhross98
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Larry S Larry S
IMO ...If I own the brand and I reissue or homage one of my archive designs, it’s not a rip off.

ok this is fair. i understand the difference. i still think an exact replica re-issue is a complete and utter rubbish way to run a modern watch company and there's a reason patek and rolex won't do it. its just a cash grab. take your old designs and be inspired by them and innovate

that said. . yeah its far worse for someone not affiliated with the brand to just knock it off. chinatown knock-off for. . .3k bucks
 
FREDMAYCOIN
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I will wait till they are available at liquidation at a super drastic discount to consider this watch.
 
JwRosenthal
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FREDMAYCOIN FREDMAYCOIN
I will wait till they are available at liquidation at a super drastic discount to consider this watch.
Perhaps it will come with a travel clock.
 
dsacks30
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Caliber561 Caliber561
I think the issue here is that ML is making a UG model, despite the fact they're not UG. It seems like you just have an issue with re-editions in general, so you're kind of missing the point.

Exactly. The interesting thing about his patent applications is that they reveal he would have called this a Uni-Compax if the USPTO hadn’t rejected his applications. So it would have been an exact replica of the UG with essentially brushed lugs and his own logo.
 
queriver
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I don't have an issue with the price, low volumes inevitably make it necessary, nobody would go into an endeavour like this to lose a bucket-load of money.

Otherwise, this watch calls into question the ethics of some participants in this game. The owners of UG were not willing to participate and nonetheless ML went ahead and created a copy, let's not call it an "homage", that's marketing b*s, it's a straight rip-off. I'm disappointed (but not surprised) the watch sites like Hodinkee gush about an unauthorised rip-off. It's all about the money and relationships. I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine. ML even copied the UG logo, only a slight change to add 2 small legs to the bottom of the U so they can call it an M while ensuring it still appears as a U on the dial and buckle. Does this mean next time ML create an "homage" to another brand's watch, they'll change their logo again, or is this now their logo for the future? Will their, say, future Rolex "homage" have a logo that makes it look like a UG watch or will they morph their logo into an M that appears to be a crown on the dial? 🤦

What was the relevance of their marketing showing a '60s F1 race car? They would have been closer to the mark if their vintage Uni-racer had an image like this:

upload_2020-10-21_10-22-46.jpeg


Perhaps I'm cynical, but the moral compass of some stakeholders in this industry is increasingly directionless.
 
SpeedTar
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dsacks30 dsacks30
Exactly. The interesting thing about his patent applications is that they reveal he would have called this a Uni-Compax if the USPTO hadn’t rejected his applications. So it would have been an exact replica of the UG with essentially brushed lugs and his own logo.

No offense in my answer but...
Replica (in the 10$ fake watch way) that's correct in design at least. The point is this watch is quite useless 3500$ is almost the price of a vintage one. Plus, there is no NOS UG movements inside. If so, I would probably applause the reissue. As other guys said a Dan Henry watch at 300$ would do the job!
To me absolutely there is no added value in this purely marketing and profitability oriented watch.
 
Larry S
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Virtually all the write ups are similar copy. All show the Big Eye. All referenced UG. Coupled with the story on the patent apps, this is shameless.
 
dsacks30
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SpeedTar SpeedTar
No offense in my answer but...
Replica (in the 10$ fake watch way) that's correct in design at least. The point is this watch is quite useless 3500$ is almost the price of a vintage one. Plus, there is no NOS UG movements inside. If so, I would probably applause the reissue. As other guys said a Dan Henry watch at 300$ would do the job!
To me absolutely there is no added value in this purely marketing and profitability oriented watch.

If you find a vintage one for $3500, please send it my way. I think you might be missing one zero:

https://shop.analogshift.com/products/universal-geneve-uni-compax-big-eye-as02205

Yes, Analog/Shift is wildly overpriced, but UG Big Eyes go for quite a pretty penny these days...
 
dsacks30
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queriver queriver
I don't have an issue with the price, low volumes inevitably make it necessary, nobody would go into an endeavour like this to lose a bucket-load of money.

Otherwise, this watch calls into question the ethics of some participants in this game. The owners of UG were not willing to participate and nonetheless ML went ahead and created a copy, let's not call it an "homage", that's marketing b*s, it's a straight rip-off. I'm disappointed (but not surprised) the watch sites like Hodinkee gush about an unauthorised rip-off. It's all about the money and relationships. I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine. ML even copied the UG logo, only a slight change to add 2 small legs to the bottom of the U so they can call it an M while ensuring it still appears as a U on the dial and buckle. Does this mean next time ML create an "homage" to another brand's watch, they'll change their logo again, or is this now their logo for the future? Will their, say, future Rolex "homage" have a logo that makes it look like a UG watch or will they morph their logo into an M that appears to be a crown on the dial? 🤦

What was the relevance of their marketing showing a '60s F1 race car? They would have been closer to the mark if their vintage Uni-racer had an image like this:

upload_2020-10-21_10-22-46.jpeg


Perhaps I'm cynical, but the moral compass of some stakeholders in this industry is increasingly directionless.

Yes, I think this is the bigger issue. Someone can do a rip-off all day long, but the fact that it is legitimized and championed by the watch press is more worrying. The only people who I've seen call this out are private collectors on Instagram and on forums like this one. Hodinkee's tag line was, "A '60s classic reinterpreted." There is no reinterpretation going on here, it is just a carbon copy.

Reviews like the one below from SJX (posted yesterday) are all too rare:

"The PAM 2020 is a hand-wind, 45 mm Radiomir with a steel case finished with an faux-patina treatment, and an inappropriately large anniversary logo on the front (and an even larger one on the back)...Although Panerai describes the new Paneristi Radiomir as 'the result of an intense creative process involving close collaboration between...Panerai’s technical and creative team…and the Paneristi', it is neither intense nor creative."

When I know that an author will call it like he or she sees it and pan a brand for doing something dreadful, I put that much more weight in a glowing review from that person and seek out that person's thoughts on releases. This is something Hodinkee and others have yet to grasp.
 
queriver
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sxl2004 sxl2004
Much to do about nothing
Are you talking about the watch or most of the comments here?
 
sdre
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I haven't had time to read through all the comments (though I think everyone's opinion is valid in some way or another).

I think at the end of the day, the decision to execute this and to create this design is targeted at that particular niche of collectors; the folks who are unable to pay 30k(whatever ludicrious amount) USD for a real vintage UG Big eye and/or the collector who has a Big eye but wants a daily reissue to wear it without worry.

I understand some of the collectors here have the real thing but a collector like me (with passing UG phases "do i still want to collect polerouters or not") it might suddenly become interesting because it has become something that you can purchase at will.

The only reason why I WON'T be buying this piece is because of the cheap-ass movement. Sure, Baltic uses Seagull in their chronographs, but they aren't 3-4k USD priced as well (and for the price, Baltic has hit it right on the spot with their designs and pricing).

If ML is able to put in a more legitimate movement e.g ETA or at least some Valjoux-sque movement, and still priced it at 3500 USD, im sure it be gone in a matter of hours.

my 2cents.
 
Caliber561
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sdre sdre
If ML is able to put in a more legitimate movement e.g ETA or at least some Valjoux-sque movement, and still priced it at 3500 USD, im sure it be gone in a matter of hours.

my 2cents.

I mean, a Sellita is basically an ETA, no?
Personally, the thing that's turned me off is the change to 30min for the recorder and the shape of the case. I just feel that it looks distorted compared to an original.
 
wkimmd
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dsacks30 dsacks30
Yes, I think this is the bigger issue. Someone can do a rip-off all day long, but the fact that it is legitimized and championed by the watch press is more worrying. The only people who I've seen call this out are private collectors on Instagram and on forums like this one. Hodinkee's tag line was, "A '60s classic reinterpreted." There is no reinterpretation going on here, it is just a carbon copy.

Reviews like the one below from SJX (posted yesterday) are all too rare:

"The PAM 2020 is a hand-wind, 45 mm Radiomir with a steel case finished with an faux-patina treatment, and an inappropriately large anniversary logo on the front (and an even larger one on the back)...Although Panerai describes the new Paneristi Radiomir as 'the result of an intense creative process involving close collaboration between...Panerai’s technical and creative team…and the Paneristi', it is neither intense nor creative."

When I know that an author will call it like he or she sees it and pan a brand for doing something dreadful, I put that much more weight in a glowing review from that person and seek out that person's thoughts on releases. This is something Hodinkee and others have yet to grasp.

In general, I agree w you about SJX - I find the reviews there to be more honest - but as far as this Massena re-issue or whatever you want to call this thing (I’m not a fan personally) is concerned, SJX seems to have fallen in line with Hodinkee. It probably speaks to Massena’s influence/reputation. I am disappointed.
 
mzinski
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wkimmd wkimmd
In general, I agree w you about SJX - I find the reviews there to be more honest - but as far as this Massena re-issue or whatever you want to call this thing (I’m not a fan personally) is concerned, SJX seems to have fallen in line with Hodinkee. It probably speaks to Massena’s influence/reputation. I am disappointed.
Here’s a question, who is Massena? And why can he just make random watches and colabs that the community just gets behind because of his influence?
I’ve only recently become aware of ML. The name sounds cool, kinda scientific and edgy. Some of the colabs are nice, some aren’t. I wouldn’t buy anything because of the name Massena. But I would buy some of his designs.
 
queriver
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mzinski mzinski
Here’s a question, who is Massena?
He is William Rohr, ex Timezone & Antiquorum
Edited:
 
sdre
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Caliber561 Caliber561
I mean, a Sellita is basically an ETA, no?
Personally, the thing that's turned me off is the change to 30min for the recorder and the shape of the case. I just feel that it looks distorted compared to an original.

Imagine marketing a Selilta as an ETA....
 
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