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Longines pocket watch 14k from ~ 1917

chronos
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Hi there!

A couple of years ago I inherited this pocket watch and I was told that it belonged to my grandfather. As I didn’t have time to examine the watch thoroughly at that moment, I pretty much forgot about it.
Today I went to my watchmaker to pick up another (wrist-)watch that had some work to be done and I just grabbed the pocket watch when I went to the watchmaker to get it opened by him as I was scared to scratch it.
Once the pocket watch was opened, I saw the engraving „dedicated to the parents „Brand“ (family name), 1924“ (roughly translated…)
So I knew that the watch didn’t „just“ belong to my grandfather, as the family name Brand is the one of my great-great-grandparents. So it turned out that the watch belonged to/ was dedicated to them, it then was passed down to my grandfather who engraved the outside of the caseback with his initials which made me believe that it was in his possession only.

Now my questions: I don’t know anything about pocket watches nor Longines at all. But looking at the serial number, the watch seems to be from 1917/1918. Plus the engravings on the caseback match the number on the movement.
As the dial somehow looks too clean for a 107 year old watch and as I‘m a bit suspicious about the print on the dial:
Do you think it is a redial?

To be honest, I don‘t care at all if it’s a redial as it is an invaluable, inherited piece of family- related history to me, no matter what. But I‘m just curious.

Plus: there seems to be a baby tooth worked into the chain. Was that really a thing back then, do you have any infos about that? (Cf. last picture)

Thanks in advance!

Best, Stephan

Btw: My family and I are from Bern, Switzerland


IMG_4594.webp IMG_4595.webp IMG_4584.webp IMG_4573.webp IMG_4576.webp IMG_4589.webp IMG_4602.webp





Ps: And here‘s a picture from 1889, showing my great-great-grandmother.
0fd9cd1c-adf9-491e-8daf-f67068b5328e.webp
Edited:
 
JimInOz
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chronos chronos
But I‘m just curious.
Watches from that era predominately used three types of dials. Vitreous enamel ("porcelain"), silvered finish on base metal and gilt metal dials.
Yours appears to be a gilt metal dial therefore has maintained it's perfection due to the gold not deteriorating.

I think the dial is original and it's a very nice watch.

Maybe @OMTOM and @Canuck (a couple of our pocket watch gurus) can comment further.
 
chronos
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JimInOz JimInOz
Watches from that era predominately used three types of dials. Vitreous enamel ("porcelain"), silvered finish on base metal and gilt metal dials.
Yours appears to be a gilt metal dial therefore has maintained it's perfection due to the gold not deteriorating.

I think the dial is original and it's a very nice watch.

Maybe @OMTOM and @Canuck (a couple of our pocket watch gurus) can comment further.
Wow, thank you so much for your fast and insightful reply! 👍
 
TexOmega
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Appears to be a metal dial.

They did not do redials back then.....a dollar or two would replace a damaged one, especially a porcelain dial.....plus, no way to redial porcelain, it was fired from a powder and liquid formula at high temps.
Edited:
 
gatorcpa
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chronos chronos
Do you think it is a redial?
I think it could be. The print seems a little heavy and fuzzy, especially around the subdial.

1734567592772.webp


However, it was done in a manner similar to 1920’s style dials, so not so bad.

gatorcpa
 
Pastorbottle
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It's a lovely old thing, does it run? you should perhaps wear it on special occasions
I have a couple of pocket watches that I wear form time to time.
 
Waltesefalcon
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You have a beautiful heirloom. I see nothing that yells that it is a redial. The sub seconds aren't perfect but as we all know not every single watch that has come off a Swiss assembly line has been perfect. If it were mine I'd get my watch maker to service it and wear it on special occasions.
 
Perdurabo
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Nice watch! This is not a redial. These two have the same movement as yours (19.79N) and they are from the same period.
1734627140701.webp

And if you look closely, you will alway find imperfections on the subdial.
1734627254866.webp

Kind regards
Gerd
 
DirtyDozen12
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Firstly, that is a lovely heirloom. Longines from that period were very high-quality watches.

Secondly, I do not think that the dial has been refinished, but the track in the sub-dial is a bit unusual. The location of the track, right along the edge of the sunken portion of the sub-dial, is atypical. The rest of the dial looks typical. It is possible that the dial is "indelible", meaning that the printing is black enamel that sits in recesses that were stamped into the dial. This could explain why the printing appears to be in such good condition.

Thirdly, what a neat photo of your great-great-grandmother! Do you know what she is wearing on her hands?
 
chronos
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Pastorbottle Pastorbottle
It's a lovely old thing, does it run? you should perhaps wear it on special occasions
I have a couple of pocket watches that I wear form time to time.
Yes, it runs and keeps time better than expected!
I haven’t tested it yet, but it runs for at least 24 hours after winding. 👍
 
chronos
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Perdurabo Perdurabo
Nice watch! This is not a redial. These two have the same movement as yours (19.79N) and they are from the same period.
1734627140701.webp

And if you look closely, you will alway find imperfections on the subdial.
1734627254866.webp

Kind regards
Gerd
Wow, great pocket watches! Thanks for sharing your pictures, I really appreciate your insights, Gerd!
👍
 
chronos
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DirtyDozen12 DirtyDozen12
Firstly, that is a lovely heirloom. Longines from that period were very high-quality watches.

Secondly, I do not think that the dial has been refinished, but the track in the sub-dial is a bit unusual. The location of the track, right along the edge of the sunken portion of the sub-dial, is atypical. The rest of the dial looks typical. It is possible that the dial is "indelible", meaning that the printing is black enamel that sits in recesses that were stamped into the dial. This could explain why the printing appears to be in such good condition.

Thirdly, what a neat photo of your great-great-grandmother! Do you know what she is wearing on her hands?
Really interesting, thanks! I‘ll try to find out more about the indelible dial!

I don‘t know what my ancestor had in her hands, or if there was anything in her palms at all… I only have this text on the back of the picture which my grandpa wrote about it. He gave it to my parents as a 100 year jubilee of the picture.

It loosley translates to:
„Annexed, a picture of great great grandmother Anna, 1866-1934, wearing a traditional Bernese attire with much silver jewelry (?) (I can’t really read all the letters in this word, but silver is definitely in it)
-grandpa 1.12.1989
The same picture of Grandma Brand is in possession of Gaston Brand.“

As I read it in German:
„Inliegend Konterfei von Ur-Urgrossmutter Anna (…), 1866-1934, in alter Berner Tracht mit reichem Silbergeschmeide.
-Grosspa, 1.12.1989
Die gleiche Foto von Grossmutter Brand besitzt Gaston Brand.“


ab0adec2-18c9-46f5-9cca-4df9d5ad7ac4.webp



Edit: I misread your question, I‘m sorry about that. „On“, not „in“ her hands…
I think it‘s some kind of pseudo-glove that was part of the traditional attire, but I don’t really know. I‘ll ask my mom about it!
 
DirtyDozen12
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Indelible dials were commonly found in Patek Philippe watches, and often appear as though the printing is raised above the surface of the dial. However, sometimes the printing can appear recessed.

Thank you for translating the text on the back of the photo! I know nothing about traditional Bernese attire, so maybe that explains the gloves?
 
OMTOM
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JimInOz JimInOz
Watches from that era predominately used three types of dials. Vitreous enamel ("porcelain"), silvered finish on base metal and gilt metal dials.
Yours appears to be a gilt metal dial therefore has maintained it's perfection due to the gold not deteriorating.

I think the dial is original and it's a very nice watch.

Maybe @OMTOM and @Canuck (a couple of our pocket watch gurus) can comment further.
A beautiful watch and a beautiful story. I'm afraid I'm 'Omega only' - and I can't offer any comment further than the informed comments already shown. Tom
 
Larry S
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That is one lovely, well preserved and obviously loved family heirloom. Find a good watchmaker and have a tune up done if you are going to use it. You have a good number of the right OF voices opining that this is original. Wow, what a beauty!
 
chronos
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Thank you all for your insights and your answers! I really appreciate your expertises!

Is there anyone who can cast light on the supposed baby tooth? I googled and even asked ChatGPT, but I didn‘t get any helpful results..
 
J_pilot
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chronos chronos
Thank you all for your insights and your answers! I really appreciate your expertises!

Is there anyone who can cast light on the supposed baby tooth? I googled and even asked ChatGPT, but I didn‘t get any helpful results..

Look up Victorian “milk tooth” jewelry - it was a trend in this era and as you might expect, just a sweet and somewhat strange way to remember that phase of a child’s life.

Your watch and post is an excellent - so cool to see the photo of your relative in the era this was made. Btw, I’ll second @dirtydozen12’s thought that this is an indelible dial - it seems to have all the right characteristics.

Juergen
 
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